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View Full Version : Guide : Comparison between Real & Fake Rolex ( good read page 15 &16)



ricnas1
15-01-08, 10:06 PM
Not sure if this has been posted or not....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1146346587689437065&q=rolex+submariner+replica&total=284&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

minusplus
15-01-08, 10:20 PM
Have never seen this in the forum before. Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

Darkangel
15-01-08, 10:40 PM
Oh yeah...I watched this before quite awhile back. Hahhaa...i downloaded it on my com last time...but deleted already

blackjack
16-01-08, 10:22 PM
cool link.

feudallordcult
15-07-08, 02:50 PM
http://74.50.21.220/~watch18/forums/showthread.php?p=118392#post118392

seiko.citizen
15-07-08, 03:31 PM
that is scary man, all the minute details put together really make a fake look very damn close

keltzar
16-07-08, 01:19 AM
I had a chance to handle a fake 16710LN once. In comparison to my real 16710LN ... moving things like the crown, bezel etc. felt rough on the fake... but what was most telling... in the hand the fake was notably lighter.

Darkangel
16-07-08, 08:25 AM
Of course from far it looks identical..but when of course when u touch it...it's a world of difference

seiko.citizen
16-07-08, 08:26 AM
not as refined, but out in the urban jungle and to those not familar with the minute details of watches, it can pass off as real :wow:

Darkangel
16-07-08, 08:35 AM
not as refined, but out in the urban jungle and to those not familar with the minute details of watches, it can pass off as real :wow:

Yup...that's true

chongj88
16-07-08, 02:37 PM
Of course from far it looks identical..but when of course when u touch it...it's a world of difference

Agree with DA. Sometimes hard to tell from photos... Especially at the angles and lighting condition which they are taken in. But once you handle enough Rolexes, you will likely know it when you hold a fake one.

Darkangel
16-07-08, 03:46 PM
Yup...my rule is...the only thing a replica cannot replicate is the quality....it can imitate the looks ONLY...thats the most it can do

feilong108
16-07-08, 03:50 PM
true...well said....the replicas movements are light years from the original...lol....afterall rolex uses their in-house movements...not ETA...hahaha..so very hard to replicate...lolz...

seiko.citizen
16-07-08, 07:36 PM
i wonder if any of the counterfeiters are actually watchmakers, and as such create a 1:1 replica of the real deal. Not for the sake of selling, but to find out the real cost of a rolex :laugh:

Darkangel
16-07-08, 08:04 PM
i wonder if any of the counterfeiters are actually watchmakers, and as such create a 1:1 replica of the real deal. Not for the sake of selling, but to find out the real cost of a rolex :laugh:

I think the cost of a rolex is not high say ard less than a $100 for a SS model? but of course the gold pieces are more expensive due to the material

I think the high cost is due to the amount of R&D and advertisements that rolex does.

seiko.citizen
16-07-08, 09:09 PM
i was more interested in the variable cost component (ie. cost of the watch/box/etc etc), the fixed cost such as R&D, advertising, etc etc that is part of parcel

SeaRolex
19-07-08, 06:41 PM
this is really useful and it makes newbie like me wiser and wiser....great info and created awareness:thumbsup:

Victor
13-09-08, 02:20 AM
Was looking at the Fake LV link and notice about the Swiss Made touching 5 min hand.
Is the M Sub LV series also touches the 5 min hand or just 3?

This is what I found;;

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2576883326_957063a94c.jpg?v=0

deadbench
13-09-08, 10:05 AM
i don't tink we are able to see the coronet so easily.. i tot tat 1 need to see with magnifier?

Darkangel
13-09-08, 11:25 AM
Was looking at the Fake LV link and notice about the Swiss Made touching 5 min hand.
Is the M Sub LV series also touches the 5 min hand or just 3?

This is what I found;;

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2576883326_957063a94c.jpg?v=0

:confused: :confused:

Dun get your question..:bonk: I catch no balls :knock:

i don't tink we are able to see the coronet so easily.. i tot tat 1 need to see with magnifier?

Yeah we need to see with a magnifier...and it's not easy to take that pic,you must have the correct angle,brightness etc..to be able to see it

Victor
13-09-08, 02:53 PM
My england so powderfull no one understand ah?:bonk:
I mean the Swiss made at the 30min.
Should it touch 5X min marker or 3Xmin Marker only?

Think Z and M series touch 3 min only

bambiboi
02-10-08, 12:09 AM
My england so powderfull no one understand ah?:bonk:
I mean the Swiss made at the 30min.
Should it touch 5X min marker or 3Xmin Marker only?

Think Z and M series touch 3 min only

the last (most recent) production has the Swiss Made spanning 5 markers, if you see 1 spanning 7 markers, it's a fake :yay:

bambiboi
02-10-08, 12:13 AM
I think the cost of a rolex is not high say ard less than a $100 for a SS model? but of course the gold pieces are more expensive due to the material

I think the high cost is due to the amount of R&D and advertisements that rolex does.

I would est ard $300 on the SS ... $100 is too low i feel, the watchmaster's man hours to assemble the movement can easily cost $100 for the labour ..

psee
14-10-08, 02:53 PM
Scary that the replicas actually look so close to the real thing these days ...

buaysaikum
30-12-09, 10:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHWfHSIoQx8

definitely will get me fooled if worn on someone's wrist!

differences (from my own gmt2c) so far:
1... too much gap between the SEL and case, when viewed from the caseback
2... the bezel clicks are damn loud
3... the ugly blue protective stickers, but that could sometimes be stuck on by 2nd hand dealers on genuine pieces

wah lao eh dun dare to buy from grey market liao mans... makes me wanna bring mine(bought from watchlink) for verification at RSC!

caeden
30-12-09, 10:37 PM
The bezel is not there yet. The SELs are not there yet.

But....WOW!!!

Sinner
30-12-09, 11:03 PM
scary man!

Ian Limm
30-12-09, 11:17 PM
if you have the watch in your hand, do the "shake test" and you will instantly know if real or fake.

the rolex logo on the clasp look like the typical fake stick on too.

also it is always easier to fake stainless steel models because it is just steel that is why I go for 18K or half gold models.

Darkangel
30-12-09, 11:26 PM
if you have the watch in your hand, do the "shake test" and you will instantly know if real or fake.

the rolex logo on the clasp look like the typical fake stick on too.

also it is always easier to fake stainless steel models because it is just steel that is why I go for 18K or half gold models.

Yeah that's right...Ian got it...hehe..

Anyway 1 thing to note...the colour of the green hand and the words aren't green enough. ;)

edsonchan
30-12-09, 11:48 PM
There is no quick date function and we cannot move the GMT hands like that on the original.....

RolexSD
31-12-09, 06:30 AM
when adjusting the time, i thought the moving "second" hand will stop until u finish adjusting it. Correct me if i am wrong.

edsonchan
31-12-09, 10:46 AM
After you pull out the crown completely, it should stop.

adrian28
31-12-09, 11:50 AM
Look at the 3(date) in the video....looks very bold and rough...

unlike the original is much finer and not so bold.

Darkangel
31-12-09, 12:18 PM
Frankly speaking lah...

If you don't own 1 or never touched 1 before..you cannot tell 1 because you have nothing to compare with

edsonchan
31-12-09, 12:21 PM
Frankly speaking lah...

If you don't own 1 or never touched 1 before..you cannot tell 1 because you have nothing to compare with

Yea.... I know that....:blushed: :blushed: :blushed:

HappyRolex
31-12-09, 03:17 PM
hi eveyone if u own a Rolex it will be very easy to tell the replica one
or else get 1 replica and compare it but must be high end replica la

DM101
31-12-09, 04:14 PM
The replica looks real. Hard to tell the diff unless the wearer remove it 4 your inspection :wow:

The way it functions gives it away including the date fonts and size.

Where can i buy this ? For the fun of it...

deadbench
12-01-10, 06:29 PM
the date looks bad,
the clasp looks fake,

Andy jk
13-01-10, 02:13 AM
There is no quick date function and we cannot move the GMT hands like that on the original.....

Bro Edsonchan are right. No quick date function and GMT hand cannot move that way. If i'm not wrong, the GMT hand (Green Hand) should be between the hour and minute hand for GMT IIC, just like the same as Explorer II. The watch look so fake to me.

exxondus
13-01-10, 11:27 AM
there ARE fake GMTIIcs with the correct hand stack. But luckily, they havent been able to clone it such that it works flawlessly :D

NaesHaes
18-01-10, 12:21 AM
Look at the 3(date) in the video....looks very bold and rough...

unlike the original is much finer and not so bold.

Yap I spotted that too. The date on real Rolex watches and that fake Rollie is different. The number is off a different type.

newbie09
01-02-10, 09:29 PM
I saw many fake rolex at HCMC, Viet. Was wondering who in sg will service this fake watches if ur happen to spoil or require servicing since it is also auto movement. Cheers.

Ian Limm
01-02-10, 10:25 PM
Most of the fakes last only a few months of usage so dont bother to service them.
the common problems are the date stop functioning or not in alignment or if you knock the watch the hour and minute hands come loose! or it just stop functioning after a few months so in the long run it may be expensive to wear fakes too:laugh:

louie
01-02-10, 10:43 PM
there ARE fake GMTIIcs with the correct hand stack. But luckily, they havent been able to clone it such that it works flawlessly :Dbro only time will tell....to replicate 1 : 1 on the cosmetic appearance.

newbie09
03-02-10, 07:37 PM
Most of the fakes last only a few months of usage so dont bother to service them.
the common problems are the date stop functioning or not in alignment or if you knock the watch the hour and minute hands come loose! or it just stop functioning after a few months so in the long run it may be expensive to wear fakes too:laugh:

Isit really that bad??

Ian Limm
04-02-10, 12:37 AM
another common problem the screws in the links become loose and come out, causing the whole watch to drop and the end...

then there are the AAA fakes, those costs $450 to $500, they last for a few years and the costs of changing the movement is about $200.

Kobelala
10-03-10, 09:44 PM
sorry, but why would anyone want to buy a fake and wear it as if he owns like the real thing ??

taxico
12-03-10, 08:05 PM
i just left a meeting of local watch collectors... and i have some news to share...

a friend took out a vintage white sub head and told me to check it out (the case back was not tightened)...

the watch felt right, and everything looked good from the outside, so i inspected the insides... a little dry looking but it's a real rolex movement.

when i told my friend it's an average looking vintage sub, he laughed and told me to carefully inspect the stamping inside and outside the watch... and that's when it hit me - this is a super rep.

while i have heard and seen pictures of super replica rolexes, today was the first time i've seen and felt one. this is a very good rep. on the wrist, you CANNOT tell the difference except that the case looks new...

there are rolex replica cases being made somewhere out there that accepts (almost) ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX PARTS.

this means, other than the mid case and case back, EVERYTHING ELSE can be fitted with real parts.

fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.

what scammers are doing are now is to:

1. buy this case (it's being sold as an empty case) and retain only mid case and case back

2. bang up the watch case to make it look old by polishing it, scratching it and throwing it around

3. buy a cheap slow-set datejust and obtain 1570 movement (sell everything else as parts to recover some $)

4. buy a clark tube + clark crystal (only if necessary)

5. buy sub parts (some are aftermarket, some are genuine but used): bezel, bezel insert, crown (must use real), date wheel, dial (probably have to use real), hand set, bracelet (if fake, then with real clasp).

6. assemble everything, trade it in/sell it off.

the more unscrupulous ones will send it for a redial (white to red, or to repair a poor quality dial) so as to fetch a higher price.

it only costs about US$1,500-$2,000 to assemble a watch that one can get rid off for a minimum of $3,000-$4,000... buyer beware!

the super rep rolex 1680 has been slowly but surely surfacing in the USA, especially in recent months, and it's a matter of time before it starts to become more common.

such super reps have been reported by a few prominent VRF members as being found in some watch shops that took them in during trade in...

the only way to tell is to inspect VERY VERY carefullly the stamping between the lugs and check the case back for printing quality (very very very easy to miss/difficult to tell without experience).

also check the oyster link stamping carefully as a real clasp can be easily riveted back to a fake bracelet.. most people only check the clasp and assume if it's real, the entire bracelet is real...

as the saying goes... if it's too good to be true...

louie
12-03-10, 09:39 PM
i just left a meeting of local watch collectors... and i have some news to share...

a friend took out a vintage white sub head and told me to check it out (the case back was not tightened)...

the watch felt right, and everything looked good from the outside, so i inspected the insides... a little dry looking but it's a real rolex movement.

when i told my friend it's an average looking vintage sub, he laughed and told me to carefully inspect the stamping inside and outside the watch... and that's when it hit me - this is a super rep.

while i have heard and seen pictures of super replica rolexes, today was the first time i've seen and felt one. this is a very good rep. on the wrist, you CANNOT tell the difference except that the case looks new...

there are rolex replica cases being made somewhere out there that accepts (almost) ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX PARTS.

this means, other than the mid case and case back, EVERYTHING ELSE can be fitted with real parts.

fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.

what scammers are doing are now is to:

1. buy this case (it's being sold as an empty case) and retain only mid case and case back

2. bang up the watch case to make it look old by polishing it, scratching it and throwing it around

3. buy a cheap slow-set datejust and obtain 1570 movement (sell everything else as parts to recover some $)

4. buy a clark tube + clark crystal (only if necessary)

5. buy sub parts (some are aftermarket, some are genuine but used): bezel, bezel insert, crown (must use real), date wheel, dial (probably have to use real), hand set, bracelet (if fake, then with real clasp).

6. assemble everything, trade it in/sell it off.

the more unscrupulous ones will send it for a redial (white to red, or to repair a poor quality dial) so as to fetch a higher price.

it only costs about US$1,500-$2,000 to assemble a watch that one can get rid off for a minimum of $3,000-$4,000... buyer beware!

the super rep rolex 1680 has been slowly but surely surfacing in the USA, especially in recent months, and it's a matter of time before it starts to become more common.

such super reps have been reported by a few prominent VRF members as being found in some watch shops that took them in during trade in...

the only way to tell is to inspect VERY VERY carefullly the stamping between the lugs and check the case back for printing quality (very very very easy to miss/difficult to tell without experience).

also check the oyster link stamping carefully as a real clasp can be easily riveted back to a fake bracelet.. most people only check the clasp and assume if it's real, the entire bracelet is real...

as the saying goes... if it's too good to be true...taxico,thank you for the heads up! this has been happening yrs ago...if you have been lurking at the rep forums i guess you will not be surprised. Some parts on this rep are gen parts crown movt etc...

A note to the vintage buyers, if you are buying an older model be a Rolex or a Pam go deal with seller at the respective SC. Cos the SC staff will let you know if the part is original and if newer part has been installed. ie tritium model, hands been swapped for luminova or "aftermarket". (this is the worst scenario if it's "aftermarket")

taxico
12-03-10, 11:38 PM
taxico,thank you for the heads up! this has been happening yrs ago...if you have been lurking at the rep forums i guess you will not be surprised.

i have come across some fakes in private discussions on VRF but they are usually easy to tell at first glance... so i guess i was quite surprised at the quality of the fake... and have assumed a fake sub would have an ETA movement within.

it seems that the reality of today's pre-owned rolex market has risen to the point where it is worth someone's time and effort to cobble such a rep together.

as the prices are very unlikely to fall, the likelihood of encountering such fakes can only get higher and higher... there is no lathing or technical requirements to put such a watch together - with the right dial and hands, one can order the tools and parts to make such a rep.

the fact that by the time an unwitting owner finds out he has a super rep, it would be too late... and how many of us (if we were in such a position) would knowingly sell off only the genuine parts and throw away the fake case?

the owner would likely sell it the best he can, in its entirety to reclaim all of his money back... and then the cycle goes on...

louie is right... buyer of vintage watches have to be extra vigilant! the $75 spent at our local RSC is the best investment a vintage watch collector/buyer can make.

sportee
13-03-10, 12:08 AM
will rcs tells us which parts of the watch is fake or has been changed?

louie
13-03-10, 12:44 AM
i have come across some fakes in private discussions on VRF but they are usually easy to tell at first glance... so i guess i was quite surprised at the quality of the fake... and have assumed a fake sub would have an ETA movement within.

it seems that the reality of today's pre-owned rolex market has risen to the point where it is worth someone's time and effort to cobble such a rep together.

as the prices are very unlikely to fall, the likelihood of encountering such fakes can only get higher and higher... there is no lathing or technical requirements to put such a watch together - with the right dial and hands, one can order the tools and parts to make such a rep.

the fact that by the time an unwitting owner finds out he has a super rep, it would be too late... and how many of us (if we were in such a position) would knowingly sell off only the genuine parts and throw away the fake case?

the owner would likely sell it the best he can, in its entirety to reclaim all of his money back... and then the cycle goes on...

louie is right... buyer of vintage watches have to be extra vigilant! the $75 spent at our local RSC is the best investment a vintage watch collector/buyer can make.Good rep or some call AAA top grade rep is near impossible to tell by just looking at it. To know whether its a rep or a gen,RSC is the only way to go. To have a piece of mind and 100% assurance 75 bucks is all you have to pay...:D

Nowadays gen parts are so easily obtainable via VRF,fleebay,and some watch shops. So it just take time for one to get the parts and put them together. Usually this are like 40% gen,and 60% rep...this 40% gen parts would have easily cost thousands of dollars and after put together yesh still a rep! Cos if rsc chk they will NOT wanna further touch it if they spotted a part not genuine. They will return the watch back to you and inform you its not using genuine part watch has been tempered with "aftermarket" parts.

It will not make sense if one has to source 80% gen parts to make up the watch,too time consuming and too much $$ to spend on a rep. May as well buy gen...http://www.rolexforums.com/images/smilies/dummy.gif

louie
13-03-10, 12:58 AM
will rcs tells us which parts of the watch is fake or has been changed?yesh they will immediately return the watch to you and inform you watch has "aftermarket" part installed and they will not service it.

Bergeon
13-03-10, 09:17 AM
using a 10 or 14 x loupe to examine for flaws is the best way to go. however, you need sufficient experience looking and working with these watches to be able to differentiate them correctly. best is to compare the original??? to the fake. the key to authentication is to be observant and -

if you have doubt, consider it fake.

bringing it into authorised service center does not solve all the problem as it can be authenticated today as 100% original by estimator A today but when another estimator B looks at the exact same watch the next year, it becomes a fake. happens quite frequently with vintage models or between service center located in different country. remember, all estimation are estimates and carried out by humans.

exxondus
13-03-10, 09:36 AM
...
fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.
...

This part I don agree. Many models in rolex family have already been repped to be able to take the gen parts :(

Other brands such as PAM, Breitling, Omega, etc are also encountering this problem.

Hene, don save money when buying preown or from grey dealers. Get it authenticated!! :D

taxico
13-03-10, 01:16 PM
This part I don agree. Many models in rolex family have already been repped to be able to take the gen parts :(

the general conclusion was that for a few reasons 1680s are more poopularly replicated (and thus more limited to this model at the moment):

1. 1570 movements are easy to come by due to the sheer number of 1601 datejusts available in the wild.

2. good aftermarket acrylic crystals (eg, clark) are cheaper than sapphire crystals and indistinguishable from orig rolex tropic crystals.

3. there are a lot of 1680 subs made and it makes money sense to redial a 1680 dial (either from damage or to be turned into a red sub) than say a 5513.

4. subs are always easier to sell than any other models, especially a well priced vintage sub...

1680s are going for US$3.5k onwards. if it costs me under US$2k to make one, i can easily make $1k-$1.5k profit off each super rep i assemble...

to make a super rep of other collectible models of vintage rolex watches require a cost that is (currently) not viable, and gen parts are difficult to come by for most (eg, super rep tudor MCs are available but very expensive).

exxondus
13-03-10, 01:55 PM
the general conclusion was that for a few reasons 1680s are more poopularly replicated (and thus more limited to this model at the moment):

1. 1570 movements are easy to come by due to the sheer number of 1601 datejusts available in the wild.

2. good aftermarket acrylic crystals (eg, clark) are cheaper than sapphire crystals and indistinguishable from orig rolex tropic crystals.

3. there are a lot of 1680 subs made and it makes money sense to redial a 1680 dial (either from damage or to be turned into a red sub) than say a 5513.

4. subs are always easier to sell than any other models, especially a well priced vintage sub...

1680s are going for US$3.5k onwards. if it costs me under US$2k to make one, i can easily make $1k-$1.5k profit off each super rep i assemble...

to make a super rep of other collectible models of vintage rolex watches require a cost that is (currently) not viable, and gen parts are difficult to come by for most (eg, super rep tudor MCs are available but very expensive).

In terms of economics, I agree with what you say on making a super rep of 1680 and selling it as a gen vs fully repping other models

What i did not agree was your this statement:



"there are rolex replica cases being made somewhere out there that accepts (almost) ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX PARTS.

this means, other than the mid case and case back, EVERYTHING ELSE can be fitted with real parts.

fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.
"

Probbaly I got your message in the wrong light. Reading the above with the word 'fortunately', you seem to be saying that only 1680 super reps can take real parts at the moment. This is def not true.

Anyway, from your later post on correcting me, I reckon that you are trying to say that only 1680s are being 'fully' repped at the moment and not the others despite other rep models already being able to take gen parts.

Correct me if my later understanding is incorrect.

Just a sidetrack, Modern models such as 16610 may cost you anywhere from SGD3-4k in total to make a fully rep with gen parts and movement (minus the 904L steel) and still being able to sell at 5k -> I would jump at a 5k Sub if it can be authenticated of cos :D.) Unethical earnings of 1-2k is still substantial to such people. just that as higlighted by you, the gen movement is much harder to come by.

cheers!

sportee
13-03-10, 02:45 PM
yesh they will immediately return the watch to you and inform you watch has "aftermarket" part installed and they will not service it.

Thanks for the advice..:)

taxico
14-03-10, 01:58 AM
Probbaly I got your message in the wrong light. Reading the above with the word 'fortunately'...

Unethical earnings of 1-2k is still substantial to such people.

i was trying to (but did not) say... "fortunately for us buyers of genuine watches, these super reps are mostly limited to the 1680 right now... with few other super reps that are as rampant..."

because if there are many many different super reps, it would be a tougher market for us collectors/buyers... thus "fortunate" in sense... : ) plus at the end of the day there WILL be people who will go for a good deal without authenticating the watch, especially less wary/experienced buyers.

criminals have done much worse for less money... !


just that as higlighted by you, the gen movement is much harder to come by.

the gen 3135 is not difficult to come by and readily available. however the 16610 dial (and all modern dials) are difficult to come by in large quantities as it is very tightly controlled.

there are many collectors and dealers hoarding tons of old dials (i've seen people with 100s and 100s of sub/sd dials)... plus older watch makers that are now steadily retiring will have a sizeable collection of vintage dials kept from before rolex geneva got strict.

as i understand it, these days an approved independent watchmaker with a rolex parts account can get any part of the watch except the dial/hands.

exxondus
14-03-10, 09:55 AM
the gen 3135 is not difficult to come by and readily available. however the 16610 dial (and all modern dials) are difficult to come by in large quantities as it is very tightly controlled.

there are many collectors and dealers hoarding tons of old dials (i've seen people with 100s and 100s of sub/sd dials)... plus older watch makers that are now steadily retiring will have a sizeable collection of vintage dials kept from before rolex geneva got strict.

as i understand it, these days an approved independent watchmaker with a rolex parts account can get any part of the watch except the dial/hands.

Thanks for the info!

ckhouse80
23-10-10, 01:02 AM
Today very free and went to JB biggest fake watch shopping center and did some research on fake watch....

1. Try to shake your watch, genuine very hardly hear to movement swing...fake watch can hear it very clearly.

2. The second hand with the superluminova round will be just beside the X (Rolex) once sweep at 1 o'clock position...fake watch a bit far from X.

3. Viewed through a 15x loop, the dial print very clear and "more 3 D"...fake watch just print on dial like photocopy on paper.

4. Series no. engraved on charter ring very smooth and clear....on the fake, the engraver seems to start and stop many times leaving build up in the "ditch" each time...

5. The series no. started from 27 minutes position and ended at 33 minutes position...3rd no. exactly at 6 o'clock position...eg V123456, V at 27 minutes position, 6 at 33 minutes position, 3 at at 6 o'clock position.

6. Genuine Rolex watch, "Rolex Rolex" engraved on charter ring started with center of 'R' from 7 o'clock position....you will be see 'R' at 7, 8,9,10,11 o'clock position...Rolex Crown engraved at 12 o'clock position....on the right side, the 'R' at 6,11,16,21 minuets position...'X' ended at 5 o'clock position

7. The laser coronet is at the lower edge of the crystal at 6 o'clock position and is so small that one can hardly see it with the naked eye. It can be found most simply if you take a look from the opposite side with strong oblique light directed upon the crystal. Usually only a small mark on the crystal can be seen, which, viewed with the help of a loupe, becomes a coronet...fake watch corroded or etched coronet with a thicker, more constant structure as a result will be more easy to see it with the naked eye.

8. Clasp Codes tally with year of production...my genuine V series with LT2 i.e. 2009 production...fake watch doest'n tally to watch series no. ...eg. fake watch with M (2008 production) series engraved on charter ring but with Clasp Codes is MA (2005 production), some fake watch do not have Clasp Codes.

9. The latest bracelet don't have numbers on end pieces that affix to the head...fake watch still produce as per old version...but some fake watch really 'updated' with latest bracelet.

10. The movement is the best way to spot the fake watch, according to internet source, fake watch using china made movement...recently fake watch try to copy authentic rolex 3135 movement but based on china movement as well....The problem for us is that we unable to open the movement to verify :(

The above just my owned view...feel free to add on you view...let all the members know more how to spot the fake watch... :)

zidaneong
23-10-10, 01:12 AM
Thanks for sharing. :) As i seldom get the chance to handle a fake rolex. :)

Darkangel
23-10-10, 01:24 AM
Thanks for sharing. :) As i seldom get the chance to handle a fake rolex. :)

Can be like me go buy a chiong 1 for fun hahaha

Oceanklassik
23-10-10, 07:26 AM
Interesting. If only those illustrations come with pics..:)

triton
23-10-10, 07:31 AM
i see from the other perspective. you need to handle both real and fake to at least know how to see the difference.


Thanks for sharing. :) As i seldom get the chance to handle a fake rolex. :)

Oceanklassik
23-10-10, 07:38 AM
This gives me an idea to share here for the next/coming mega meet-up:wow: ! May be the forum committee can consider to obtain and bring few fakes to the meet-up, as purely a form of education for us amateurs?

exxondus
23-10-10, 09:13 AM
Can be like me go buy a chiong 1 for fun hahaha

but chiong one also not cheap leh :(

P88
23-10-10, 09:21 AM
This gives me an idea to share here for the next/coming mega meet-up:wow: ! May be the forum committee can consider to obtain and bring few fakes to the meet-up, as purely a form of education for us amateurs?

Good idea! If there is, I'll like to attend. :-)

triton
23-10-10, 09:37 AM
would Oceanklassik like to sponsor one?


This gives me an idea to share here for the next/coming mega meet-up:wow: ! May be the forum committee can consider to obtain and bring few fakes to the meet-up, as purely a form of education for us amateurs?


but chiong one also not cheap leh :(

ckhouse80
23-10-10, 10:13 AM
haha...for sure the staff not allow me to take picture there lah...


Interesting. If only those illustrations come with pics..:)

ckhouse80
23-10-10, 10:15 AM
but chiong one also not cheap leh :(
I agreed with u...the staff told me that super grade one need about S$450... i would rather use it in future for rolex servicing :)

feilong108
23-10-10, 10:16 AM
super grade? i find that the grading in the fakes are kinda of interesting...

Darkangel
23-10-10, 10:21 AM
This gives me an idea to share here for the next/coming mega meet-up:wow: ! May be the forum committee can consider to obtain and bring few fakes to the meet-up, as purely a form of education for us amateurs?

Zidane! You bring your Black daytona along....I got a black "daytona" can use to compare

Darkangel
23-10-10, 10:21 AM
I agreed with u...the staff told me that super grade one need about S$450... i would rather use it in future for rolex servicing :)

Ask her $450 can bring into Rolex for servicing ...then you buy :evil:

Oceanklassik
23-10-10, 12:22 PM
would Oceanklassik like to sponsor one?

If I have, I don't mind to bring but where can I buy one in Singapore. I don't mean those 'obvious' fakes. Not worth the compare. Regretting it now I didn't buy few from China, when I last visited months ago. It costs between S$60-S$80, and the fakes looked rather real..:p

feilong108
23-10-10, 12:29 PM
wow....go to shenzhen or bbk lor...got plenty to choose from..

Oceanklassik
23-10-10, 12:37 PM
wow....go to shenzhen or bbk lor...got plenty to choose from..

Sure, if you sponsor my trip there, I buy a few for the forum..:D

feilong108
23-10-10, 12:39 PM
hehehehe....go there to relax a few days lar boss...then can buy all brands...can spot AP,pams,rolexes,richard mile,cartier and many more...u named it they have it

kenlinliu1419
23-10-10, 12:45 PM
The easiest way to tell a fake Rolex in JB is when someone approaches you and asks whether you are interested to buy a Rolex! A cheap and genuine one! :numchuck:

ckhouse80
23-10-10, 12:46 PM
haha...if can hor...i will buy tones liao....


Ask her $450 can bring into Rolex for servicing ...then you buy :evil:

feilong108
23-10-10, 12:47 PM
hahaha..their punch line is so irony...to me rolex and cheap are worlds apart in the way to use them together...cheap rolexes any one????

Hahahaha..sound corny enuff liao...

ckhouse80
23-10-10, 12:47 PM
they said super grade means very closed to authentic based on outlook. But, i still can spot some points here and there :)


super grade? i find that the grading in the fakes are kinda of interesting...

feilong108
23-10-10, 12:50 PM
to me fake is a fake...hahaha..how 'super' grade oso very easy to spot to me....the moment i see the crown i cringed...me not high end or loaded...for me i prefer to go for lower end brands than a fake..hehehehe...so i m not well versed in fakes...hehehehe.....

yong5
23-10-10, 01:41 PM
This gives me an idea to share here for the next/coming mega meet-up:wow: ! May be the forum committee can consider to obtain and bring few fakes to the meet-up, as purely a form of education for us amateurs?

I've got a 'genuine' GMT 2 to share for comparision if there is a meet up. hahas.

Oceanklassik
23-10-10, 03:58 PM
Good. KIV until the next forum meet and we shall be able to make a physical comparison. Tx.

:)

zidaneong
23-10-10, 06:09 PM
This gives me an idea to share here for the next/coming mega meet-up:wow: ! May be the forum committee can consider to obtain and bring few fakes to the meet-up, as purely a form of education for us amateurs?

Good idea. :)

jermy76
23-10-10, 08:21 PM
If anyone of u wanna buy a fake for the purpose of comparison, let me know cos i'll be heading to Beijing in mid Nov. My friend already told me to get him a Tag & Omega :P

benbean
23-10-10, 10:31 PM
I heard they also use the real ceramic bezel on the best GMT2C fake.
Rolex claims 40 hours to make each bezel, now the chinese are making it by the truckload??

ckhouse80
02-11-10, 10:37 AM
seem like more and more members interested to compare the "real" Rolex and Authentic Rolex...is good....this article can educate everyone to know more about watches:)

mecafe1
09-11-10, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the pointers.

kenlinliu1419
14-07-11, 01:40 PM
http://youtu.be/2drG-nmrGH0

http://youtu.be/bguELqb6VDQ

hypersocial
14-07-11, 02:49 PM
That's why I never support fakes! I rather wear a genuine Casio watch than a fakey anytime!
:)

lthg25
14-07-11, 08:01 PM
Yes I would never get a fake, why wear something if you dont want to pay for it? Nothing wrong with a Casio!

seiko.citizen
14-07-11, 09:00 PM
some people have the need to show off hence the markets in counterfeits.

desfrie
15-07-11, 09:04 AM
These fakes will not last and will tarnish in a short time anyway. What is worst, I have a friend who had a bad allergic reaction (skin rash) to the "fake" metal bracelet .

zidaneong
15-07-11, 09:23 PM
That's why I never support fakes! I rather wear a genuine Casio watch than a fakey anytime!
:)

Bro, same view here as well. :)

oxen69
20-07-11, 05:47 PM
These fakes will not last and will tarnish in a short time anyway. What is worst, I have a friend who had a bad allergic reaction (skin rash) to the "fake" metal bracelet .

Perhaps, with the savings they make from buying fake, they can throw away the watch anytime, anywhere and flip to a new watch as and when the fake watch give way.

there is so much fakes produced in china, i afraid fakes are here to stay. and with luxury watch company getting more and more greedy, jacking up prices periodically, the fake market will only get bigger?

novaol
24-07-11, 01:28 PM
I've learned that many good replicas also have swiss movements and the degree of likeness is extremely close and hard to differenciate. A friend of mine in Thailand showed me a GMT II and told me it's a replica and also it's made from swiss movments. It is so difficult to find fault. Just that he told me that the reason he bought it because he is worried someone would rob from him and that he does bought the original to wear on an important ocassion. I hear and looked at internets, there are alot of movements made by China, Japan and now Swiss. So it would be closer to it's original look and feel (weight) and also the movements not too far from now.

franciz
06-08-11, 10:21 PM
Read in some blog writings by a HK rolex guru. He mentioned that a genuine Exp2 should have some laser mark of the "crown" at the six o'clock position (refer below picture), is it true. How come mine dont have?

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4115/rolexexplorer2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/rolexexplorer2.jpg/)

CFC
06-08-11, 10:44 PM
this appear on the newer series,older series dun have it.

Oceanklassik
06-08-11, 10:46 PM
You are not wrong but not totally right. This is one of the security features against counterfeit and almost all ROLEX watches should have it. If your watch does not have it, then there may be some problem. I'm not sure when this feature came about though. So it may also depend on the age of your watch?

franciz
06-08-11, 10:59 PM
My Exp2 is V series bought from THG 3 months ago.

Oceanklassik
06-08-11, 11:02 PM
Look harder then!

franciz
06-08-11, 11:03 PM
Phew..found it!!!
It was so freaking small.

CFC
06-08-11, 11:05 PM
My Exp2 is V series bought from THG 3 months ago.

view it in different angle and u should be able to see it.try harder

cck1609
06-08-11, 11:43 PM
You are not wrong but not totally right. This is one of the security features against counterfeit and almost all ROLEX watches should have it. If your watch does not have it, then there may be some problem. I'm not sure when this feature came about though. So it may also depend on the age of your watch?

tat means my GMT2c shd hv this feature too?

CFC
06-08-11, 11:45 PM
tat means my GMT2c shd hv this feature too?

yup,my sold v series GMTIIC had it too.

franciz
06-08-11, 11:46 PM
Thks Oceanklassik & illusion84 :)

CFC
06-08-11, 11:49 PM
Thks Oceanklassik & illusion84 :)

u're welcome.enjoy ur stay here.cheers. :thumbsup:

Watcha
07-08-11, 12:03 AM
the fake one have it too.

but if u can see it easily, probably not made by rolex.

cck1609
07-08-11, 12:26 PM
need to use magnifying glass?

Oceanklassik
07-08-11, 04:37 PM
No need (for me).

Watcha
07-08-11, 05:10 PM
No need (for me).

Proof that u eye sight is good. Keke

Need good light n eye sight to see with naked eyes.

franciz
07-08-11, 05:15 PM
Tilt your watch to the side, shine torch light, you should be able to find it jus abv the 12 hour mark of the bezel.
Room light too bright is difficult to see.

Oceanklassik
07-08-11, 05:24 PM
"12 hour mark of the bezel" :confused: .. Thought it's at 6 o'clock?!

franciz
07-08-11, 05:33 PM
"12 hour mark of the bezel" :confused: .. Thought it's at 6 o'clock?!

on top of 6 o'clock of the dial, above 12 o'clock bezel same.

raylww81
23-08-11, 12:08 PM
My Milgauss GV dun hav lei..

rockdaman
23-08-11, 01:16 PM
My Milgauss GV dun hav lei..

116400gv doesnt have it

novaol
23-08-11, 01:19 PM
Anyway the fake nowadays also has the markings on their sapphire crystal glass too. I have seen it on a fake GMT IIC and also DateJust. But you can find as fake if you look carefully for those who own the same model, otherwise it would be quite difficult for a naked eyes as they have no references.

triton
01-01-12, 12:13 PM
taken from youtube

TU76nhgpQCk

adamteo
01-01-12, 12:59 PM
thanks!! one of my fav shows on History.

louie
01-01-12, 01:32 PM
that is one lousy fake LOL, guys don't judge or believe frm photos or videos! They could have been gen (show u gen , shipped you a fakee) or Photoshopped. Even in person putting a top grade rep side by side with a gen you can't even tell....the reps is getting better this days, scary but true!

Old saying buy the seller first...

singapore_nomad
16-02-12, 12:17 AM
Hello - Ive been looking on line at some pictures of the new explorer and trying to find some obvious things to spot a fake.


Rolex has mentioned the following :
1) Crown lazer into the glass at the 6oclock marker - see this if light is shone around 3oclock marker

2) Serial number of the watch is engraved inside the watch around the inner bezel. between the glass and dial

Are there any more? Some of the pictures have what looks like a bar code on the case (opposite side to the crown) What is this?

triton
16-02-12, 12:46 AM
are you buying new from gray dealers, i suggest that you go get it authenticated to have peace of mind.

the bar code is rolex possibly for inventory?


Hello - Ive been looking on line at some pictures of the new explorer and trying to find some obvious things to spot a fake.


Rolex has mentioned the following :
1) Crown lazer into the glass at the 6oclock marker - see this if light is shone around 3oclock marker

2) Serial number of the watch is engraved inside the watch around the inner bezel. between the glass and dial

Are there any more? Some of the pictures have what looks like a bar code on the case (opposite side to the crown) What is this?

bigbrudder
16-02-12, 09:03 AM
I have seen some pix of fakes where the hour hand is longer. Suppose it will be a matter of time before the fakers come up with something new.

Dfive
16-02-12, 09:05 AM
Hello - Ive been looking on line at some pictures of the new explorer and trying to find some obvious things to spot a fake.


Rolex has mentioned the following :
1) Crown lazer into the glass at the 6oclock marker - see this if light is shone around 3oclock marker

2) Serial number of the watch is engraved inside the watch around the inner bezel. between the glass and dial

Are there any more? Some of the pictures have what looks like a bar code on the case (opposite side to the crown) What is this?

Does the DSSD have this ? ( Point 1 ).

madtunas
17-02-12, 05:52 PM
yes it certainly has

triton
05-04-13, 08:45 AM
ups

triton
05-04-13, 08:46 AM
appreciate all members who have contributed to teach fellow members how to spot.

do note that this thread serve as a guide and is by no means comprehensive. buyers are to practice due diligence when buying from non authorized dealers.

Rolex-man
06-04-13, 03:06 AM
some people wear real , people think it is fake.

some wear fake, people think it is real.

dont be too into it.

just be true to yourself

greeniewhite
10-04-13, 11:31 PM
wow...this is really an eye-opener

Helanga
20-04-13, 08:37 PM
thx for sharing this info.

xzqt
20-04-13, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the video and information

national09
21-04-13, 12:03 AM
Thanks for all the useful information contributed as it really enhanced my knowledge.

zhleez
21-04-13, 10:11 PM
Thank you for sharing. I am looking for a pre-owned sub and this information will be invaluable.

Great123
22-04-13, 11:22 PM
There are also 3131, 3156 copy movt out there

taxico
05-11-14, 02:45 AM
a few months back i spent SG$750 buying what was the best fake rolex sub on the market. i got the watch last week and spent a few days checking it out. here's my opinion on the thing:

overall, the sub will pass scrutiny for most people that don't handle rolex watches on a regular basis.

the good: there are plenty of issues with the watch when viewed by a seasoned collector. the crown is of a wrong shape. the date flick is still not perfect. the hands are not perfect.

when looked at in detail, the overall quality still screams MADE IN CHINA. without taking it apart into little bits, it is entirely possible to tell it is a fake.

the bad: the date flick can be easily sorted with a movement swap. the direction of hand/crown adjustment can be changed by swapping with gen reverser wheels.

the rep dial makers are getting really good at their game. i think it will be a matter of time before the dials and inserts are so well made it's not possible to distinguish without removing them to look at the back.

i fear the day that the backs of dials and inserts are made to rolex spec. this is very possible.

the stamping of logos on the bracelet clasp and crown are very good. way better than i expected. this is also worrying.

on the fence: this watch was designed to accept all gen parts. this is both a good and a bad thing. i assume people with money will simply buy the real deal, rather than a work in progress.

caveat emptor! education is key.

lukevans
05-11-14, 12:39 PM
any pictures of the fake? :D

kenkelvin
05-11-14, 04:41 PM
Tks for sharing

lausai88
05-11-14, 08:22 PM
You spent $750 just to see how good the fake imitate the original.
Bro, you damn rich bravo

taxico
05-11-14, 10:05 PM
any pictures of the fake? :D

i've been wondering if i should post photos, and i decided not to.

i will however be posting my opinions on how to avoid falling for these fakes, and some tips on what to look out for by this weekend.

taxico
05-11-14, 10:07 PM
You spent $750 just to see how good the fake imitate the original.

if you don't handle them at least once... how can you learn to tell them from the real stuff? these aren't your KL fakes... i could not find one here in singapore and had to buy one.

triton
05-11-14, 10:12 PM
well done for not posting photos.

personally i find that without handling replica, it can be quite hard to know if the watch is a real mccoy.


i've been wondering if i should post photos, and i decided not to.

i will however be posting my opinions on how to avoid falling for these fakes, and some tips on what to look out for by this weekend.

taxico
05-11-14, 10:21 PM
my following remarks are limited to the older generation of subs and datejusts (and old SD and YMs to a limited degree) for a few reasons. mostly these are what i have exposure to over the last few months.

they are accurate, to the best of my ability, right now. it may no longer apply tomorrow. like the people making these watches, this is a work in progress.

i can't comment on fake YM IIs, and anything else in precious metals (DD, sky dweller, etc). no fake watch is able to replicate the functions properly - usually only partially if the complications are dead (dummy functions). the light weight of plated/wrapped steel is also a quick giveaway that is it not 18k gold.

daytonas:

daytonas... as far as i'm concerned, the 4130 daytona cannot be replicated. take the back off and you will be able to tell the difference instantly. there are fakes out there with all sub dials that work and at the right position.

4030 daytonas... there are frankens, where everything is genuine rolex except the base movement itself, which is usually an el primero running at 36k bph. put these on a time grapher and you can tell immediately it is not 28.8k bph. yes, it can be changed into 28.8k but it is too expensive to do so - it requires a main plate change and these are almost impossible to find. if you add the cost of modifying an el primero to look and work like a 4030 + put it into a genuine rolex case set + bracelet, it will be at least the same price as genuine daytona.

vintage 6xxx daytona. at this time, newbies will probably be easily fooled as a v72 can be dressed up with the right bridge, dial and handset to make a very realistic looking daytona. i've had difficulty telling some of these apart. look to the areas around the pushers, as well as the base plate of the movement to ensure they look like rolex parts.

if in doubt, stay clear. if you do not know your vintage daytonas, you WILL be burnt (eventually). buy a bible (many daytona books on the market) and read read read.

ki113r
05-11-14, 10:24 PM
Wow $750 for a fake Rolex? Power!

taxico
05-11-14, 10:34 PM
anything with 3085, 3185, 3186 (sapphire last generation gmt2, exp2)

these movements CANNOT be (okay, have not been) repped. if the hour hand (not the GMT hand) doesn't jump, the movement is NOT correct.

you CAN put an ETA base movement in with jumping hour hand, but you will not be able to get a date that jumps quickly when you go past midnight. the hand stack is also wrong - the GMT hand will be above the hour hand, which is not how rolex designed it.

anything with GMT hand/3075 + acrylic crystal... eg, 16750, 1675, 1655...

the simplest versions uses an ETA base. the gmt hand is usually adjustable. in a genuine rolex, this is not. the older models are usually slow beat, and most of them will use a high beat ETA although this is not difficult to slow down with the right parts/a movement swap.

the easiest way is to take the back off and look for rolex bridges/markings on the movement.

in a 1655 (a common fake ) the crown guard, and the outer lug area beside the crown lugs are usually of the wrong shape. the dial, at this time, does not correspond well with known 1655 dials out there.

1675/16750 matte dials are also not well made at this time.

YM 16622

these have been well faked. an easy tell is the quality of the dial. the "white gold" (ok. steel) hour marker surrounds are not well/clearly defined. the lume will bleed onto the steel, especially on the 12, 6 and 9 o'clock marker.

the printing of "SWISS MADE" is also not in the correct space and not the right size.

the lume plot below the round mercedes marker on the hour hand is also of the wrong size. the "hole" on the second hand (which attaches to the 4th wheel/hand stack) is big and black - this will be a recurring theme.

other YM models are not good fakes.

Ed.YEO
05-11-14, 10:43 PM
I always believed on the common saying, "It pays to learn, unless someone offer free lessons".
TS bought from a local blogster? Guess what, numbers of months ago, one of my foreign colleague bought a cheong sub from the seller. Wah lau ehh... one another colleague who is a rolex buyer for numbers of years, with about 6 rolexes in his collection, couldn't even tell it's a ROLE-C(where C is cheong) after 5mins of fondling with the fake piece after the FT brought back the watch to the office! With ROLE-C box and "papers" somemore! It was only after roughly 7mins or so... the season collector staff notice something different with the movement. I couldn't tell if i had not unscrew the crown and start to wind... it feels kind of rough compare to real deal. Personally, it's either there's no rubber seal at the stem with the ROLE-C, or it's the nature of the cloned movement.

Really... lucky i rather buy homage, or else my money will be burnt like ash as if i was offering my dead fore-fathers as in Chinese July period...

taxico
05-11-14, 10:50 PM
1680/551x

this is an extremely muddy and murky area. there are case sets out there that are very very well made. there are non-rolex date wheels made from steel. there are custom sub dials made from old rolex dials. there's a whole cottage industry, including some asian-based people modifying/making parts on demand.

because of the relatively high value some of these watches command, you can find very well made fakes that are very difficult to distinguish from the real thing without taking the thing apart and scrutinizing them carefully.

and because i have seen complete/partial fakes using a few genuine rolex parts that come complete with fake service paperwork and fake original warranty paper... i am at a slight loss on what advice to give. but here's a shot...

a quick way: most slow beat ETAs are 21.6k bph. 15xx rolex is 18k or 19.8k bph. i am sure the eta can be modified to run a little slower.

it is also cheap to find a vintage datejust and stick the movement into a fake vintage sub case set. watch out for the engravings (long/short Es). there are fake dials that correspond exactly with all known rolex dials.

check the date wheel. each and every date should look clear, well defined, and not left (your left) justified.

the case back is often a cheap fake. check the markings inside corresponds with known parts on the internet. an old case back will come with a tiny bit if pitting and wear. check the edges of the case back as well as the lip that is near the gasket with a loupe. look for wear.

use your loop and check in between the lugs for real wear, especially at the (inner) corners. if it's like NOS, please be careful. check for drilling at the insides of the lug holes with a loupe. most fake cases have been re-drilled to accept thick rolex spring bars. checking in between the lugs helps because most people don't wear out that area. real wear is easily identified with experience.

as of my posting, there is an entire red sub that has been cobbled together with all genuine parts. it is for sale at under US$7k. my belief is that RSC will accept this watch for service without too much trouble. it is also going to be easy to print fake paperwork for it. is will also be easy to buy it and sell it on for a few thousand dollars more... such watches do not come up all the time as they are expensive and difficult to build, but i hope it doesn't end up in your hands.

this is part of the reason why i no longer buy vintage rolex.

taxico
05-11-14, 11:06 PM
datejust (160xx, 162xx) + vintage explorer 1 (1016) + explorer 1 (14720 + 114270)

these are easy to build. there are always people cannibalizing DJs for the movement - me included.

many many years ago, i have sold a genuine 16013 case set before to someone. he put in a 2836, used tudor oysterdate hands, and gave it to his dad. he showed me photos and it looks really good.

the quickest way to tell? take the back off. if it doesn't say rolex on the movement on the bridges, it's not real. most people don't put a real rolex movement into these watches as they are not expensive on the 2nd hand market.

quick tells on sapphire models... look at the hole on the second hand where it's on the hand set... it's quite big and black.

as some of you may know, vintage 5500 air kings can be modified to be "explorers" - these are usually redials. white words/printing + matte dial = alarm. run away. join VRF and be educated.

real gold bezels are usually marked with a rolex logo on the inside. you'll have to take them off to check. there will usually be some pitting on the mid case below the bezel (including some early batches of 904L steel cases).

for DJs, look for a nicely centered date - on every day, not just some days. on explorers, make sure your crown comes out only to position 1 - that there is no position 2 (for date).

bracelet stamping should be well defined, not too sharp (these are old bracelets).

SD (16600)

look out for the date wheel. usually poorly made, and justified left (your left).

the printing on the case back, especially the oval in the coronet, is poorly made.

the dial markers are not well defined, with lume bleeding.

1665 SD

look at 1680/551x remarks.

taxico
05-11-14, 11:49 PM
16610

the reason for this thread.

i've been monitoring the advancement of this model by a well known "maker" for some time. i decided to order one directly from him to find out what the deal was... i wished i had done it a little later, because he has made more improvements to his fake parts that i am very curious to find out if they are as good as his pictures show. a little more on this later.

his case set is blank. this means it can be engraved with any word/number as the buyer wishes. his case set accepts all genuine rolex parts.

for the purposes of this discussion, i will stick to the watch as was shipped to me by the maker.

the bezel - squeezing it shows a poor quality part. it deforms slightly under pressure.

the tube - the gasket is of the wrong size (slightly smaller)

the crown - slightly bigger than gen, especially at the outer "curve". but the coronet is of a good shape - the oval is slightly wider than on a real part.

the case edges - too sharp. this can be very easily rectified by a polishing cloth.

as of the watch i received, the lug holes were not properly aligned. this means the bracelet was uneven. especially on the 16610T case, there should be ALMOST NO GAP on a real rolex case set + rolex bracelet SEL.

the bracelet had sharp areas and the buckle/clasp area was also misaligned. if the buckle was swapped for a 93250 buckle, it can be difficult to tell the fake from real links. the screw heads were very close to real part.

the genuine screws go in deeper than the fake. when the bracelet is removed, the SELs on the fake do not show a model number or laser engraged coronet. some fake bracelets have a poorly defined coronet. a real bracelet will always show a clearly defined coronet and model number - you may have to scrub the dirt off first...

the second hand hole... by now, you should know what to look for. google for real 16610 images and inspect that hole carefully. the little black hole is quite small, because the rivet has been purposely minimized by rolex to cover as much of the hole as possible.

the fakes usually have quite a big black dot there. it is entirely possible to find a random batch of second hands from china, from time to time, that have a nice rivet (small hole), but it is my belief right now that this is very rare.

manipulate the hands to 11.30pm and slowly move the time forward. the date will creep forward. a real rolex movement will show NO movement of the date wheel.

please note that a 2836 WILL display an instant date jump. however in a last-generation sub, this movement is difficult to fit into a case while maintaining the correct crown height due to its thickness (thicker than a 2824).

crown height is important. in this fake that i've received, the crown height is virtually perfect. in most cheap fakes, the crown is usually set much lower (when looking at the crown from the 6/12 o'clock position, with the crystal facing the ceiling).

the movement used in most fakes will invariably be a 2824 or 2836. i shall briefly touch on a "hybrid" movement that looks like a real rolex movement later.

the dial... this dial is well made, including the steel marker surrounds, but the spacing between the words OYSTER DATE PERPETUAL is a little too wide (IMO). everything else is very very well made and difficult to tell. this dial is, according to the maker, made in UK. i have no real proof this is the case, but i believe it is made by a dial maker for sure.

the magnification is slightly off. it is more than 2.5x but not noticeable on the wrist.

16613

there had been a batch of gold wrapped 16613 that were made a few years back by another maker. these are essentially similar to the above, except the dial printing is spot on and with the proper "sun burst" effect. a quick tell is the lume creeping onto the markers. the (yellow) date wheel on some versions are not well centered.

i have not been able to handle these in person, but the blue version's dial exhibits a slightly purple hue. because these have been a "once off" production, they are no longer for sale. some have modified their fake 16613 from this batch very extensively, and may appear to be indistinguishable from the real deal.

i believe in its stock form, the gold wrapping is in 14k gold. so the tone is a slight giveaway. but because the gold parts are usually swapped out for real parts, the tone itself is not guaranteed. but... generally, most people won't buy a real bracelet for this watch due to the cost involved, and the fact that because the watch is gold wrapped, and thus more durable than plated gold.

due to my limit exposure to this batch of watches, i am unsure what the lug printing is like. i believe they should be shallow and of the wrong font. this can be quickly remedied by a skillful engraver.

taxico
05-11-14, 11:50 PM
hybrid movement (and clone movement):

this warrants a different discussion. until 2014, i have always been under the impression that rolex parts do not fit into an eta movement. thus i used to tell people a quick tip to distinguish an ETA from a modern rolex movement is to adjust the time. clockwise = time goes forward on a rolex. the opposite for ETA. (30xx movements work the same way as ETA does)

check the date flick. if the crown height is correct (2824), then the date will flick over instantly on a real rolex movement (15xx and later models).

trust the chinese to figure out what works and what doesn't. you can apparently now stick rolex wheels into an ETA to make the time go forward when turning the crown clockwise.

in general, an ETA would have an etachron-type adjuster. more advanced versions may feature a triovis adjuster. but it is unlikely you will see a studded balance wheel (microstella screws) on an ETA movement.

--

the chinese have also been building a clone 3135 movement. there are at least 2 different versions on the market, possibly 3.

in general, pay attention to the balance bridge. there should be only one area sticking out on a genuine rolex movement. on the clones there are usually two. this is the limitation of the base calibre of these clones.

the clones allow a user to use a genuine rolex dial, hands, date wheel and some critical wheels (reversers, etc).

i have not had sufficient experience with these movements because they are, in my opinion, generally rudimentary and easily identified. but they CAN look very similar to a genuine 3135 movement for the uninitiated.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE BALANCE BRIDGE!

---

the future:

the maker of the fake watch i bought sent me photos of his latest 16610LV insert and 16610LV dial 2 weeks ago. he also published it on his own website.

the spacing error i mentioned earlier has been rectified. the dial looks really very very good.

the color of the insert, if the way he has described it, also looks fantastically close to some variations of the genuine part.

i believe the dial maker will eventually make a batch of these dials, when it is "perfected" by him, with the correct 3135 feet position.

because i use non-rolex crystals on some of my watches, i am unsure if this is a good or bad thing. on one hand, these dials will cost a fortune if sold by rolex. on the other hand, the quality is really really good... and it is cheap.

will i eventually be buying a perfect but "fake" 16610LV insert? (i use non-rolex purple and white inserts on my own subs/gmt2s).

i doubt i will get a fake dial, but i will probably get a fake insert. a real LV insert is US$450 from RSC... thanks but no thanks.

as technology advances, and the prices of rolex watches increase with time, you can be sure more and more people will be trying to "make a buck."

collectors of vintage watches cannot stop educating themselves unless they do not mind being ripped off from time to time.

if you know what you are buying, you will be less likely to get ripped off. i have experienced watch dealers that have sold me some fake rolex parts by accident before. because they have a good rep doesn't mean they won't make a mistake.

as always, caveat emptor!

Jean Ramon
05-11-14, 11:51 PM
Haha what happens if you hold it under Water or under 40 Degrees Water, will the Movement melt down together? Think it`s a nice thing to try :)

taxico
06-11-14, 12:21 AM
the watch passed pressure test at my local scuba shop... i tested to 150M (15 ATM) in dry chamber and 10ATM in wet chamber - no problem.

i did not modify or change anything to the watch.

the watch came with QC timing certificate after being adjusted by the maker.

average of +8s/day on my watchmaker's vibrograph. he was impressed by the watch also.

due to the extensive modifications and documentation by many people have done to this watch, i see no reason to not believe that all genuine parts can be used on this watch (crown, tube, bezel assembly, crystal, etc).

as such, i believe it might just pass a 300m pressure test A-O-K if genuine gaskets were properly cleaned and installed.

Jean Ramon
06-11-14, 03:40 AM
Impressive, how can they do all this for that Money, you bought it from Mr X and he bought it from another and pherhaps this person bought it also elsewhere.

lukevans
06-11-14, 03:16 PM
seen some fakes while on holiday, the quality is still not there and its a work in progress. No doubt, the stamping is acceptable but nothing like a rolex should be

Shawnsp
06-11-14, 04:55 PM
All this are very worrying. That some of the less experience bro may end up with a replicate not thinking it was real and thought he got the world best deal.

jadsen_phang
06-11-14, 05:38 PM
All this are very worrying. That some of the less experience bro may end up with a replicate not thinking it was real and thought he got the world best deal.

hardly unless one bought from a pawnshop that the pawnshop are conned in the first place. internet in a nono place to purchase unless seller agree to meet up for verification.

Ed.YEO
06-11-14, 09:37 PM
seen some fakes while on holiday, the quality is still not there and its a work in progress. No doubt, the stamping is acceptable but nothing like a rolex should be
You have not seen those that are 95% or more lookalike ones yet... If you're referring to those sold openly in HK, Thailand, or Malaysia ones... you're just seeing a tip of the iceberg nia... And these sold openly ones are too easy to identify as fakes, sibeh cheap as well.
Those that very well made ones are priced roughly about 750 and above... With that price? I rather go homage...

minimerc
06-11-14, 10:09 PM
thanks for sharing taxico! Nic article!!

the gold bezel found on the 4 digit reference such as the 180x/160x gold bezel do not have 2 micro hall marks. only the bezel on QS dd/DJ have hall marks.

the only way to differentiate real against AM for 4 digit ref gold bezel is to measure the internal/external and height of the bezels. Real bezels are often very marginally heavier due to thicker height.



real gold bezels are usually marked with a rolex logo on the inside. you'll have to take them off to check. there will usually be some pitting on the mid case below the bezel (including some early batches of 904L steel cases).

minimerc
06-11-14, 10:12 PM
unfortunately, fakers have "perfected/corrected" the long E, shape of guards on 1680 etc. I have seen recently a fake case without all these early fake features and i was almost conned. The barely tell tale signs are the spacing between engravings and that seller had offered another fake piece which was less well made..


1680/551x

this is an extremely muddy and murky area. there are case sets out there that are very very well made. there are non-rolex date wheels made from steel. there are custom sub dials made from old rolex dials. there's a whole cottage industry, including some asian-based people modifying/making parts on demand.

because of the relatively high value some of these watches command, you can find very well made fakes that are very difficult to distinguish from the real thing without taking the thing apart and scrutinizing them carefully.

and because i have seen complete/partial fakes using a few genuine rolex parts that come complete with fake service paperwork and fake original warranty paper... i am at a slight loss on what advice to give. but here's a shot...

a quick way: most slow beat ETAs are 21.6k bph. 15xx rolex is 18k or 19.8k bph. i am sure the eta can be modified to run a little slower.

it is also cheap to find a vintage datejust and stick the movement into a fake vintage sub case set. watch out for the engravings (long/short Es). there are fake dials that correspond exactly with all known rolex dials.

check the date wheel. each and every date should look clear, well defined, and not left (your left) justified.

the case back is often a cheap fake. check the markings inside corresponds with known parts on the internet. an old case back will come with a tiny bit if pitting and wear. check the edges of the case back as well as the lip that is near the gasket with a loupe. look for wear.

use your loop and check in between the lugs for real wear, especially at the (inner) corners. if it's like NOS, please be careful. check for drilling at the insides of the lug holes with a loupe. most fake cases have been re-drilled to accept thick rolex spring bars. checking in between the lugs helps because most people don't wear out that area. real wear is easily identified with experience.

as of my posting, there is an entire red sub that has been cobbled together with all genuine parts. it is for sale at under US$7k. my belief is that RSC will accept this watch for service without too much trouble. it is also going to be easy to print fake paperwork for it. is will also be easy to buy it and sell it on for a few thousand dollars more... such watches do not come up all the time as they are expensive and difficult to build, but i hope it doesn't end up in your hands.

this is part of the reason why i no longer buy vintage rolex.

kel12
07-11-14, 01:33 AM
Very nice read! Moderators make this exception, photos will be educational!

triton
07-11-14, 08:53 AM
even for a seasoned trader, the person may not be able to tell.

let me share an instance where i was at a preown watch shop, another dealer brought in some watches for this preown watch to service. when one of the watch case back was open and upon inspection, it was communicated to the dealer who brought in the watch that is fake. immediately a phone call was made back to inform about the fake watch.

there you go. sometimes a seasoned trader may even miss something. that is why i always advise buyers who buy preown pieces to get them authenticated at their respective brand service centre. if this cannot be done, look for a seasoned trained watch technician whom you trust.


All this are very worrying. That some of the less experience bro may end up with a replicate not thinking it was real and thought he got the world best deal.

triton
07-11-14, 08:58 AM
wouldn't a pawn shop practise due diligence when authenticating a watch?

no reputable pawnshop will sell a fake watch as it is shop reputation at stake. as such, most if not all reputable pawnshop will verify its watches are authentic before selling.


hardly unless one bought from a pawnshop that the pawnshop are conned in the first place. internet in a nono place to purchase unless seller agree to meet up for verification.

triton
07-11-14, 09:00 AM
taxico,

can you kindly pm me your contact details so that i can present to you a leather nato strap for your continuous contribution to this forum.

lukevans
07-11-14, 11:35 AM
wouldn't a pawn shop practise due diligence when authenticating a watch?

no reputable pawnshop will sell a fake watch as it is shop reputation at stake. as such, most if not all reputable pawnshop will verify its watches are authentic before selling.

actually pawnshop also not foolproof... i don't trust them... lol

taxico
07-11-14, 03:13 PM
thanks for sharing taxico! Nic article!!

the gold bezel found on the 4 digit reference such as the 180x/160x gold bezel do not have 2 micro hall marks. only the bezel on QS dd/DJ have hall marks.

the only way to differentiate real against AM for 4 digit ref gold bezel is to measure the internal/external and height of the bezels. Real bezels are often very marginally heavier due to thicker height.

you are right. i had the sapphire models in mind when i typed it out... thanks for adding to the thread!

important to note bezel thickness for acrylic and sapphire crystal model is different - sapphire version is slightly thicker... that thickness is easy to differentiate.

unfortunately i have also seen old and used 160x gold bezels that look "wrong" (but probably not fake) due to wear and tear. it is likely that as long as the gold content is correct (14k for older models, including some 160xx), your losses should be minimal.

also, the hall marks are microscopic (to me) so a good loupe is necessary IMO to look at them clearly.

wingjohn
07-11-14, 03:57 PM
thank you for sharing

pajero_kid
08-11-14, 06:59 PM
fake sucks :) make us panic and RSC earn more for authentication

lausai88
08-11-14, 10:28 PM
here are some tips on how to tell a fake rolex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Gl0rZggn2ro

Nathanael
08-11-14, 10:54 PM
oh no that sucks

Jean Ramon
09-11-14, 12:57 AM
Incredible how much time and money criminals invest to copy the real stuff! Serials will tell a lot and you can look into online databases, watches who are fake with same serial will be flagged there! Buy it new with all paperwork, otherwise go to a good Trader/Dealer or buy private and let your watch be inspected at a local AD! Luckily it never happened to me that i bought a fake as i mainly do Brand New but can you imagine people who safe years to buy finally their Watch of their Dreams, pay a lot and find out with a service it`s a fake, i really would be upset.

meanjean
11-11-14, 03:09 AM
You spent $750 just to see how good the fake imitate the original.
Bro, you damn rich bravo

haha i burst out laughing. all these spoil market idiots are getting better. rsc bee tang

basketman
11-11-14, 11:34 PM
Thanks for your $750 worth of sharing ! haha

triton
12-11-14, 08:51 AM
i am not sure if the non original watches comes with warranty card.

one of the few reasons why i prefer to buy preown pieces with warranty papers/card is that the chances of it being non original is reduced.

it is also why if i purchase any pre own time pieces, i will take it to either RSC or my trusted watch technician(s) for verification for a fee. this will at least give me a peace of mind once verified.

SpyVeilside
12-11-14, 12:07 PM
I have handled a few high end fake Rolex Sub(with sapphire crystal).. No matter how good the finishing.. there will be swirling sound when you shake the watch..

Babolat
26-11-14, 12:07 PM
Video says that once the crown is fully fasten, it should be fully vertical.
I don't remember my GMT II crown being vertical...
Anyway, big thanks to all who contributed to this post, especially taxico!