Warning for Bros/Sisters Here Customizing Straps from JnS

[nilfire77]

Hi bros, just wanna share my personal experience with JnS here.

Just a few days ago, I collected my Vecchio brown ALLIGATOR straps from JnS. After that, happily went home...

Then today, upon closer inspection, i found ISO pores on the leather, which is an indication of crocodile hide and not the advertised alligator hide.

Feeling shortchanged, I contacted Jason about this issue, at the same time asking for a partial refund. Although he admitted his oversight, his reply was that crocodile hide has many different grades blah blah blah and what I got was the higher grade ones and that those cost the same as alligator hide. (Put simply, he doesn't want to redo my actual order (i.e an alligator strap and NOT crocodile strap) nor does he want to refund any of my money).

Well, being the nice guy, I didn't want to argue with him so I just accepted his whatever reasons and blame it on my piss poor luck.

So there you go guys, be warned. So next time if you want to go the route of JnS, be sure to VERIFY your order with Jason before hand. Make sure what you order is what you get. Good luck!

[nilfire77]

Latest update from JnS:

In order to mitigate this oversight, Jason has offered to channel a partial refund to my next strap purchase. Ahhhh... at least there's light at the end of the tunnel! Despite this slightly unfortunate experience of mine, the overall customer service from JnS is still commendable!

Kudos to Jason and Sherron! Looking forward to my next strap purchase...

[gmt8300]

to TS: what is ISO pores????

[kadios]

You are an understanding customer, a rarity in today world.

[nilfire77]

Thanks for the warning.
Will blacklist them.

Bro, there's no need to go to the extend of blacklisting them. I believe good communication is the key here.

[nilfire77]

to TS: what is ISO pores????

Lifted from the www:

How to tell the difference between crocodile and alligator hide

Similar in texture and patterns, alligator and crocodile skins are composed from square and oblong scales (or tiles). If you examine them closely, you will see that some skins have little dots close to the scale edge (crocodile), and others don't (alligator). The dots are hair follicles, or sensory pores, that assist crocodiles to detect change in water pressure, and locate and capture their prey. In biology, these pores (hair follicles) are called ISO (integumentary sense organs). Thus, the major difference between Crocodile and Alligator is the presence of the sensory pores (ISO) found only on Crocodile skin, but not on the Alligator body skin.

The Superiority of Alligator vs Crocodile Leather
By William Levin


Many products today are made from alligator or crocodile leather, from purses and shoes to custom leather dog collars. When trying to determine whether alligator or crocodile leather is more superior leather or more luxurious, there are many factors to consider before making a final determination.

Generally, alligator leather is viewed as the nicer and more luxurious leather, with more symmetrical scale patterns and a softer hide. Alligator has a smoother and more "three-dimensional" feel than crocodile skin, and alligator hides typically command the highest prices. It is one of the most highly sought raw materials by the manufacturers of luxury items.

Although extremely rare, a very few number of crocodile skins can compare with the quality of alligator hide. These would include "Nile crocodile" and Australian saltwater crocodile. When processed and tanned correctly, these very rare and expensive crocodile skins can meet or exceed the luxuriant nature of alligator skin. (Remarks: I believe this is what Jason has been emphasizing to me about, with regard to the high price of his crocodile skins.)

Species of Reptiles

There really is only one species of alligator, known as the American Alligator. In contrast, there are over a dozen species of crocodiles from all over the world. The most common is the Brown Caiman, which is found in Central and South America. Generally, caiman skin is drier and stiffer than alligator skin, and significantly less durable. Unfortunately, many items made from caiman skins are deceptively labeled as alligator products.

Most species of crocodile are endangered and therefore illegal to hunt and harvest for commercial use, or at the very least their use is restricted by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES).

When examined closely, crocodile or caiman skin will have small pits in the scales. These pits do not exist at all in genuine alligator products.

A Comparison of the Leathers

At first glance, it can be very difficult to tell crocodile from alligator leather. They are similar in a number of ways, and both will provide many years of useful service. However, the value and quality of the leather can vary greatly depending upon the tanning process used and the body section of the donor animal from which the leather is taken. The most important considerations tend to be softness, scale pattern, and finish.

For the most part, alligator skin is of a far greater quality, with more symmetrical scale patterns, softer skin, and a smoother feel than crocodile skin.

Most mislabeling occurs with the Brown Caiman, whose skins tend to be thinner, dryer, stiffer, and less durable due to less sophisticated tanning processes. For most products, the skin from the belly and throat areas is used because it provides the most symmetrical scale patterns, which are rectangular in shape. Skin taken from the sides of an animal will have scale patterns that are more rounded in shape, and the hide can still be of a high quality. The least desirable part of the animal is the tail, which comprises approximately 50% of the animal's length. Skin from this area is stiffer with scales more widely spaced, and it is usually heavily scarred.

Size Matters

The size of a skin can help distinguish genuine alligator from a caiman or croc. Alligator skins are generally six to 12 feet long, while caiman and most croc skins are only three to five feet long. With smaller donor animals, the transition of scale patterns is evident even in small items such as a wallet or purse.

Scale patterns tend to correlate to the size of the animal. Therefore, hide from a full grown alligator may have scales that are over one inch square and tend to be more symmetrical.

Alligators Retain Superiority

In general, alligator skins are going to be softer, more supple, more durable, and provide a more uniform scale pattern than crocodile or caiman skins. Additionally, alligator is not an endangered or threatened species, so products manufactured from genuine American alligator are maintaining an environmentally friendly status as well.

[nilfire77]

You are an understanding customer, a rarity in today world.

As customers, we expect and deserve to get what we pay for as advertised. But having said that, sometimes we just have to give service providers the benefit of the doubt.

[cmtang99]

Very informative, thanks Bro

[nilfire77]

to TS: what is ISO pores????

[clocking]

Let's say if that alligator from china, Is that alright for you.

[nilfire77]

Let's say if that alligator from china, Is that alright for you.

Where it comes from is beside the point. If you ordered a plate of turkey, but got served a plate of chicken. Is that alright for you?

[Otar]

not many would know how to diff between a croc and an alligator. i wonder how many actually got the straps from them, thinking that it was alligator but were actually crocs.

Hi bros, just wanna share my personal experience with JnS here.

Just a few days ago, I collected my Vecchio brown ALLIGATOR straps from JnS. After that, happily went home...

Then today, upon closer inspection, i found ISO pores on the leather, which is an indication of crocodile hide and not the advertised alligator hide.

Feeling shortchanged, I contacted Jason about this issue, at the same time asking for a partial refund. Although he admitted his oversight, his reply was that crocodile hide has many different grades blah blah blah and what I got was the higher grade ones and that those cost the same as alligator hide. (Put simply, he doesn't want to redo my actual order (i.e an alligator strap and NOT crocodile strap) nor does he want to refund any of my money).

Well, being the nice guy, I didn't want to argue with him so I just accepted his whatever reasons and blame it on my piss poor luck.

So there you go guys, be warned. So next time if you want to go the route of JnS, be sure to VERIFY your order with Jason before hand. Make sure what you order is what you get. Good luck!

[clocking]

Where it comes from is beside the point. If you ordered a plate of turkey, but got served a plate of chicken. Is that alright for you?

"Yes Sir" that's why i never go out from the point.

Let's say if that Alligators from china, Is that alright for you.

What is the difference between "Alligator" and "Crocodile" leather. Both Alligators and Crocodiles are large reptiles of crocodilian species, they are quite alike. There is a great deal of confusion on this issue, "Yes Sir" i (fully understood).

(A plate of turkey, but got served a plate of chicken) "Yes Sir" we going out of the point but i fully understood your point. (Let's say if that Alligators from china, Is that alright for you) Just like to know yes or no from your. For some people die die want from us, for some china also alright as long Alligators

(You have a good heart not go until extent of blacklisting) but your first statement sound negative, second statement sound positive. My point asking you this, (Let's say if that Alligators from china, Is that alright for you). Make this thread sound positive instead of negative. Let's say your reply yes and let's talk about the positive. (Like workmanship)

Bro, there's no need to go to the extend of blacklisting them. I believe good communication is the key here.

[gmt8300]

Didnt know about 'iso spore' until I see this thread
quite informative
i looked at my h18 gator strap - no iso spore confirm genuine gator not croc

my next question: is alligator hide alot more expensive than croc hide? By how much

[zameenzahari]

I am glad that it was resolved amicably by both parties. JnS is always good in my books..Jason is a paneristi first, strapmaker second...