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  • Social sector wants govt to move beyond law for parent maintenance

    SINGAPORE: The social sector said authorities need to go beyond just the law when it comes to getting children to look after elderly parents.

    They were responding to Prime Minister Lee’s National Day Rally speech, where he said the government will study how best to use the Maintenance of Parents Act to act on cases where children abandon their parents in nursing homes.

    In an increasingly fast—paced world, elderly parents often lose out on time, attention, care and financial aid, with a few even abandoned in nursing homes.

    But sociologists said problems go beyond the issue of filial piety. As parents live longer, chronic illnesses take a toll on their children’s finances.

    Associate Professor Paulin Straughan, sociologist, National University of Singapore, said: "One hospitalisation, for example, a stroke can set you back at tens of thousands of dollars. Where are you going to get that money?

    "Medisave may be exhausted after a week, Medishield may not be sufficient. And many of these aged Singaporeans, sadly are not covered by anything else and these adult children have to look after themselves and their children as well."

    For this lost generation of elderly Singaporeans, stop gap measures include more long—term healthcare insurance.

    Stepping up home care and creating eldercare leave are other options, while social workers said mediation is available and should be used before resorting to the law — failing which, a neutral third party, like a nursing home, to compel payment may work better.

    Sandy Koh, medical social worker, Alexandra Hospital, said: "A lot of parents are worried that if they initiate the process to get money, it will further strain relations. So in these cases, a third party might be helpful."

    When it comes to parent maintenance issues, medical social workers at Alexandra Hospital said they face issues with two main groups of people.

    One is when the children are overseas and the parents are here in Singapore and there is no one to look after them. And second, when there is a larger family and one child takes the main bulk of caregiving duties and is compelled to go to the tribunal to get more help from his or her siblings.

    An announcement on changes to the system is expected later this week.

    =============

    i think sg gov still fail to realise, our health care sys sucks!
    world class my ass !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! blame it on the children whn our gov cant aid or provide good health care sys. .. .why most develop nation fast less of tis problem.

    Was reading an article abt highest no of sucide group = sg men in the 40s, cos of family reponsible. parents and young children to take care of... i can understand why.....

  • #2
    right on, govt shld give due recognition for those elderly who once upon a time contribute to the growth of the nation in one way or another.....and give them free healthcare to the senior citizen

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Foxbat View Post
      right on, govt shld give due recognition for those elderly who once upon a time contribute to the growth of the nation in one way or another.....and give them free healthcare to the senior citizen
      ya loh... tell u story... the diff btw ( health care sys ), my M-I-L and my dad

      My mom-in-law:
      living alone in EU. her 2 daughters, one with me .. the other 1 married to a US citizen. ask her to come stay with us, but she refuse and rather stay alone in EU, cos of her medical condition, she say staying with us, means $$ burden for us.

      she had cancer many yrs ago, but due to radio therapy, other side effect arise. she cant walk and on wheelchair. she a citizen of a EU country and retire. got a monthly $$ frm gov and all her medical bills comes FOC, even her motorize wheelchair all foc etc. other thn tht she can apply for $$ if she do require some aid/ care assistance.

      tis is how 1st world country treat their citizen....

      we here... WTF .... dont bloody provide 1st class care sys and yet want to pass a law for parent maintenance ... knn

      My dad
      My dad, born in sg, a singapore citizen. i think he has done more than enough public service, contribute to the singapore society and paid millions in taxes ( thru out his life time ) ......and yet... wht he get ???? BIG FAT ZERO.

      due to his medical condition yrs decade ago, he is not covered under any medical ins. now due to some other medical condition, he's bed-ridden.

      tis yr alone, he must hv gone in and out of private hosp at least 5x. a 5 day stay usually end up more thn 10K, a month stay, prepare to look at 100k. ... last yr, the hishest billing was for 50+ days at abt 250k.

      sg private hosp, bloody listed in stock exchange.... are they competitive enough to provide the best pricing ??? guess u can figure out which are the big 1s.

      as for hosp bills, 500/ single room night ... well, after u + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +, maybe end up $4000/ day... anyway, it all depends wht u are in the hosp for... if u are fit and able, and in for just a normal simple surgery, in and out of the hosp in say 4 days, it should not cost more thn 6k ( excl doc+ops+threatre ). .. . but if u are in cos of OLD PPL'S PROBLEM, like pneumonia/ infection etc. be prepare to look at 3-4 k/ day.. cos those items like pharmacy, catheter, lab test, daiper etc is easy a lot of times higher... eg, adult diaper cost maybe 70cent outside, hosp will charge u maybe $7. .. well its almost like hotel loh... drink their can of coke in the fridge, $5

      as for why not gov hosp... we tried.
      1stly, the wait and appt is so bloody long.
      2ndly, doc see no hope, ask us if thts the life he wants. sort of telling us, quality of life not there, give up lah.

      luckily, we currently still afford it. doc ask us before, to wht extand we are willing to go...since my dad cant ans tis for his own, i say, i am selfish, as long as my dad is still with me, and i can still see him. i want him to be alive!!! try everything to the extreme ( actually, i dont even know if i am right ) . . . . we are not super rich, but my dad have save and gv us enough, and we going to use it on his care.

      so i do understand those who are in the same shoe .. it's stress... work, children, parents. i think my dad must hv stayed at least more thn 140 days in hosp, last yr and tis yr. ... i hv never miss a day.. sure to make it to visit him daily, sometimes 2x day.

      so sg gov . . . alot of us citizen will want to take care of our parents, but izzit within our means... ?? i doubt.

      Comment


      • #4
        pet, do you know what is the income tax is like in EU?

        my friend in UK is paying 50%, in Belgium is also 50%, , in Germary 45%, Denmark 55%, I worked in the states before and was paying around 35%... Singapore is only about 20%.....

        pet, do you know how much ppl paying for those "so-called" health insurance in the states and EU?
        In the states, I was paying around US$400 per month just on health insurance and with the US$400 I was paying, I was covered with US$800 worth of insurance as my company was paying one-for-one policy...

        If you're not asking for ward A, I believe our govt has already done a good job in our health care system.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 116520 View Post
          pet, do you know what is the income tax is like in EU?

          my friend in UK is paying 50%, in Belgium is also 50%, , in Germary 45%, Denmark 55%, I worked in the states before and was paying around 35%... Singapore is only about 20%.....

          pet, do you know how much ppl paying for those "so-called" health insurance in the states and EU?
          In the states, I was paying around US$400 per month just on health insurance and with the US$400 I was paying, I was covered with US$800 worth of insurance as my company was paying one-for-one policy...

          If you're not asking for ward A, I believe our govt has already done a good job in our health care system.
          boh pien mah, those country no state own enterprises... hahahhaa
          also no 'indirect tax' ... hee

          tokin to wife if we should chabot from here... say, be where her sis is, we might be better off... considering cheaper housing ( ok, depend on cities/ state), cheaper bmw x5 (S$75k) compare to S$200k+ here ...we save on certain things, and pay higher taxes in return, wu hua ah... hahhahaa thn dont hv to drain our kids from their $$ to take care of us next time.

          onlly thing set me ( i think most sporean ), roots, culture diff. political stable, sch, sercurity. tht 1 no doubt sg 1st cls.

          Comment


          • #6
            Correct.... nothing is perfect.... just watches... there is no perfect watch...

            happy can already loh... cheers bro!


            Originally posted by pet View Post
            boh pien mah, those country no state own enterprises... hahahhaa
            also no 'indirect tax' ... hee

            tokin to wife if we should chabot from here... say, be where her sis is, we might be better off... considering cheaper housing ( ok, depend on cities/ state), cheaper bmw x5 (S$75k) compare to S$200k+ here ...we save on certain things, and pay higher taxes in return, wu hua ah... hahhahaa thn dont hv to drain our kids from their $$ to take care of us next time.

            onlly thing set me ( i think most sporean ), roots, culture diff. political stable, sch, sercurity. tht 1 no doubt sg 1st cls.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 116520 View Post
              Correct.... nothing is perfect.... just watches... there is no perfect watch...

              happy can already loh... cheers bro!
              of cos lah, given choice, stay sg lah.

              but... wht i mean is tht, gov fail to understand the issue, affordbility of sg health care... pass law to maintence parents ... wonder other country do tht? usually parents resp for their underage kids nia...

              let ppl laugh ah... being asian, on ave, more filial leow. . . tis law make other ppl think we sg dont take care of our folks... taking care 1 thing, can afford another mah.... address the roots mah.

              maybe instead of spending $3b on special bonus package ... spend it to help say 100,000 ( 30K each ) patients... .... sg gov got money... if no, GLC or gov investment firm got more thn enough return yearly to help...want to help is another question. .. seems like not helping mah, come out with tis law...

              Comment


              • #8
                I think they are just doing what they do best.... "arrow"....


                Originally posted by pet View Post
                of cos lah, given choice, stay sg lah.

                but... wht i mean is tht, gov fail to understand the issue, affordbility of sg health care... pass law to maintence parents ... wonder other country do tht? usually parents resp for their underage kids nia...

                let ppl laugh ah... being asian, on ave, more filial leow. . . tis law make other ppl think we sg dont take care of our folks... taking care 1 thing, can afford another mah.... address the roots mah.

                maybe instead of spending $3b on special bonus package ... spend it to help say 100,000 ( 30K each ) patients... .... sg gov got money... if no, GLC or gov investment firm got more thn enough return yearly to help...want to help is another question. .. seems like not helping mah, come out with tis law...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 116520 View Post
                  I think they are just doing what they do best.... "arrow"....
                  ... ARROW.... hahahaha . . .. u r rite

                  whn ppl cant afford parents' medical, gov come out with maint parents law.
                  should look at why ppl cant afford. ( no doubt, there's a very small portion, where children do not do their duty ) . . but tis is not the main issue - cos it's only a minoirty. main issue is those i highlight in red... should debate on making maint parents/ medical affordable instead ( which is the majority concern).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    pet, I hope the govt havn't read your post yet. In order to fullfill those pts. I believe that the govt will hv to increase the tax rate to substain any medicate sub or they will hv to "force" us to increase our CPF contrib. There were issue of "forcing" us to buy insurance but I think the govt knows it doesn't work and the topic was dropped.

                    Taking care of our parents is our duty, so I think having a law is fine as long as I am doing my duty. I am not so worry about this law as I am mentally ready to do so. On the other hand, I am more worried about govt setting more speed traps/speed cameras on the road.... ha ha...


                    Originally posted by pet View Post
                    ... ARROW.... hahahaha . . .. u r rite

                    whn ppl cant afford parents' medical, gov come out with maint parents law.
                    should look at why ppl cant afford. ( no doubt, there's a very small portion, where children do not do their duty ) . . but tis is not the main issue - cos it's only a minoirty. main issue is those i highlight in red... should debate on making maint parents/ medical affordable instead ( which is the majority concern).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pet View Post
                      ya loh... tell u story... the diff btw ( health care sys ), my M-I-L and my dad

                      My mom-in-law:
                      living alone in EU. her 2 daughters, one with me .. the other 1 married to a US citizen. ask her to come stay with us, but she refuse and rather stay alone in EU, cos of her medical condition, she say staying with us, means $$ burden for us.

                      she had cancer many yrs ago, but due to radio therapy, other side effect arise. she cant walk and on wheelchair. she a citizen of a EU country and retire. got a monthly $$ frm gov and all her medical bills comes FOC, even her motorize wheelchair all foc etc. other thn tht she can apply for $$ if she do require some aid/ care assistance.

                      tis is how 1st world country treat their citizen....

                      we here... WTF .... dont bloody provide 1st class care sys and yet want to pass a law for parent maintenance ... knn

                      My dad
                      My dad, born in sg, a singapore citizen. i think he has done more than enough public service, contribute to the singapore society and paid millions in taxes ( thru out his life time ) ......and yet... wht he get ???? BIG FAT ZERO.

                      due to his medical condition yrs decade ago, he is not covered under any medical ins. now due to some other medical condition, he's bed-ridden.

                      tis yr alone, he must hv gone in and out of private hosp at least 5x. a 5 day stay usually end up more thn 10K, a month stay, prepare to look at 100k. ... last yr, the hishest billing was for 50+ days at abt 250k.

                      sg private hosp, bloody listed in stock exchange.... are they competitive enough to provide the best pricing ??? guess u can figure out which are the big 1s.

                      as for hosp bills, 500/ single room night ... well, after u + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +, maybe end up $4000/ day... anyway, it all depends wht u are in the hosp for... if u are fit and able, and in for just a normal simple surgery, in and out of the hosp in say 4 days, it should not cost more thn 6k ( excl doc+ops+threatre ). .. . but if u are in cos of OLD PPL'S PROBLEM, like pneumonia/ infection etc. be prepare to look at 3-4 k/ day.. cos those items like pharmacy, catheter, lab test, daiper etc is easy a lot of times higher... eg, adult diaper cost maybe 70cent outside, hosp will charge u maybe $7. .. well its almost like hotel loh... drink their can of coke in the fridge, $5

                      as for why not gov hosp... we tried.
                      1stly, the wait and appt is so bloody long.
                      2ndly, doc see no hope, ask us if thts the life he wants. sort of telling us, quality of life not there, give up lah.

                      luckily, we currently still afford it. doc ask us before, to wht extand we are willing to go...since my dad cant ans tis for his own, i say, i am selfish, as long as my dad is still with me, and i can still see him. i want him to be alive!!! try everything to the extreme ( actually, i dont even know if i am right ) . . . . we are not super rich, but my dad have save and gv us enough, and we going to use it on his care.

                      so i do understand those who are in the same shoe .. it's stress... work, children, parents. i think my dad must hv stayed at least more thn 140 days in hosp, last yr and tis yr. ... i hv never miss a day.. sure to make it to visit him daily, sometimes 2x day.

                      so sg gov . . . alot of us citizen will want to take care of our parents, but izzit within our means... ?? i doubt.

                      Yep... i feel u bro... muz haf been super xiong... my dad not as serious.. but keep going eye op and see specialist also killing me liaos... neck deep in water liaos.. Sibei cham also...

                      Dunno wat to say abt this "gahment".... haiz..
                      *****************************
                      A bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at the office.


                      Just me and my NT...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 116520 View Post
                        pet, I hope the govt havn't read your post yet. In order to fullfill those pts. I believe that the govt will hv to increase the tax rate to substain any medicate sub or they will hv to "force" us to increase our CPF contrib. There were issue of "forcing" us to buy insurance but I think the govt knows it doesn't work and the topic was dropped.

                        Taking care of our parents is our duty, so I think having a law is fine as long as I am doing my duty. I am not so worry about this law as I am mentally ready to do so. On the other hand, I am more worried about govt setting more speed traps/speed cameras on the road.... ha ha...
                        buy ins, tht's provided they want to cover. they dont cover ppl with history leh. tht'ss wht happen to my dad. no coverage.

                        actually, i tell half story nia. my mom also on treatment, she dont hv previouos history, so she got ins. her past 1 yr treatment of sugery, chermo, radio cost abt 50k, ins cover 65% of it... she just fin her treatment.

                        so whn 1s parents reach a certain age ... need medical treatment. stress out for whole family.

                        anyway, there should be a balance. with the current sys. those retire and fall sick eat grass, children of those eat grass.... haha.. in another a decade + or so, majority of sporean in the 60s ... cham loh.

                        tokin abt fine.... i think gov gian lui... visit my aunt .. park at loading// unloading for awhile at 2am... fine me $100. use to be $70 ... wtf....
                        jst recieve a fine from tp. onlyy state travelling frm bt timah towards upper bt timah, time , date, fine $130. 4 pts. travelling 1-20 abv speed limit... wtf....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 116520 View Post
                          pet, do you know what is the income tax is like in EU?

                          my friend in UK is paying 50%, in Belgium is also 50%, , in Germary 45%, Denmark 55%, I worked in the states before and was paying around 35%... Singapore is only about 20%.....

                          pet, do you know how much ppl paying for those "so-called" health insurance in the states and EU?
                          In the states, I was paying around US$400 per month just on health insurance and with the US$400 I was paying, I was covered with US$800 worth of insurance as my company was paying one-for-one policy...

                          If you're not asking for ward A, I believe our govt has already done a good job in our health care system.
                          In SG, u can die but cannot fall ill. The policy sorry to say favors the rich, the poor will always suffer. Why the rich? Tax is low, security is good. Thats the reason how the gov manage to lure all the investors and FTs into the country. If your tax is 50%, i think all the FTs all run road already. From the way i see it, SG is not a place for retirement, when u old and sick, its a torture. Best solution is to migrate to a retiree friendly country like Aussie or NZ where healthcare is good, standard of living is low, at the same time possess property in SG to continue getting rental income.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by louisoh View Post
                            Yep... i feel u bro... muz haf been super xiong... my dad not as serious.. but keep going eye op and see specialist also killing me liaos... neck deep in water liaos.. Sibei cham also...

                            Dunno wat to say abt this "gahment".... haiz..
                            how's yr dad ? eye still not better ah ?

                            my dad's illness very complicated... very jia lark for us also. every month, needs abt 15k. thts exclude doc or hosp bills...

                            $$ & time spend, stress out, come out here to conmplain, de-stress....hahhaa

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              todays article .... Obama makes moral case for health reform.

                              http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2009082...a-972e412.html

                              tis is first world.....

                              WASHINGTON (AFP) - - President Barack Obama said, as the world's richest nation, had a moral duty to offer health care to everyone, in a fresh bid to bolster support for his top domestic priority.

                              Obama addressed an estimated 140,000 people on a call sponsored by 30 progressive religious denominations as the White House tried to still disquiet among liberals, and opposition among Republicans, to his health reform plan.

                              "The one thing you all share, is a moral conviction, you know, that this debate over health care goes to the heart of who we are as a people," said Obama on the call also including his domestic policy director Melody Barnes.

                              "I believe that nobody in America should be denied basic health care because he or she lacks health insurance," Obama said, after calling into a webcast including clergy and believers of Evangelical, Protestant, Catholic and Jewish orders.

                              "No one in America should be pushed to the edge of financial ruin because an insurance company denies them coverage," Obama said.

                              Obama hit out at what he branded "fabrications" whipped up by opponents of his policy, including claims that it would expand abortions, give health care to illegal immigrants and ration end-of-life care.

                              "These are all fabrications that have been put out there in order to discourage people from meeting what I consider to be a core ethical and moral obligation.

                              "That is that we look out for one another, that I am my brother's keeper and I am my sister's keeper," Obama said, using a phrase drawn from the Bible.

                              Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele dismissed Obama's call as a gimmick, saying it was evidence the White House was running scared.

                              "President Obama is frantically struggling to shore up his base," Steele said.

                              "The religious left talks about their desire for social justice. No bill that funds abortion or strips health care services away from seniors and low-income Americans can or should be considered just," he said.

                              The White House earlier denied it had given up wooing Republican support for Obama's plan, following reports Democrats may go it alone.

                              "The president has said countless times he will work with anybody in any party that wants to work constructively on health care reform," said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs.

                              Expectations that the Democrats would fall back on their majorities in the House of Representatives and the Senate to pass the bill were fanned by several media reports late on Tuesday and early Wednesday.

                              The New York Times quoted White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel as saying the Republican leadership had made a strategic decision to defeat health care reform, Obama's signature domestic initiative.

                              But Gibbs said Obama was committed to engaging with Republicans in pursuit of a bipartisan measure.

                              "There are still several more weeks to go in potential negotiations between Republicans and Democrats. I don't know why we would short-circuit any of that."

                              Obama would like to win some Republican support for his bid to cut health care costs, expand access and rein in insurance giants, in line with his vow to drain the partisan bile from Washington.

                              Some polls suggest that most Americans would like a bipartisan solution.

                              Republican votes may also give vulnerable lawmakers from conservative Democratic districts some cover to vote for the measure, or leeway to oppose it without endangering its chances of passing Congress.

                              Gibbs said he believed there were some Republicans still working in a "constructive" way to promote health care reform during the August congressional recess.

                              "We will get in a rocket and fly around the moon if that is what it takes to get everybody together and get an agreement," Gibbs said.

                              After spending last week repulsing Republican attacks on the health care reform drive, Obama is now facing a liberal backlash, following reports, denied by the White House, that he is prepared to drop a plan for a government-run entity or "public option" to compete with private insurance plans.

                              In a sign of an intensifying sales job, Obama has lined up a live online and telephone meeting with Organizing for America, the network of millions of grass roots supporters which emerged from his 2008 campaign infrastructure.

                              The White House said that the president would appear live to take listeners calls on the radio show of conservative commentator Michael Smerconish on Thursday.

                              Comment

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