Enquiry on Winders

[triton]

2 ways,

call richemont and ask about panerai. call rolex and ask also.

other way is buy and try out. if anything goes wrong. good luck. anyway, as far as i know. orbita setting for rolex is correct.

maybe different brand makes their winder different? as mentioned before 650 for rolex is good enough. eilux is using 900. kinda high imho

[redneckk]

im sourcing for a winder now and it is pure hell. i want a winder with selectable tpd and directions. but i get conflicting information regarding my watches' requirements.

take from eilux website:
Most Rolex Automatics: Counter Clockwise

Orbita:
Most Rolex Automatics: Both 650tpd

CONFLICTING

For my Panerai.
Eilux:
Luminor Submersible Diver's Professional (PAM 00024 / 25 / 106 / 170) : Clockwise
Movement: Caliber OP III: Alternate
PAM 024 Luminor Submersible Diver's Professional: Alternate
SAME MANUFACTURER WEBSITE, CONFLICTING INFO.

Orbita:
Caliber OP III: CW 800tpd
PAM 024 Luminor Submersible Diver's Professional: CW 800tpd

how to choose winder like that. i don't even know my watches' requirements. headache man.

[moncapu]

Hi,

May I know where did you bought these winder?

cheers
moncapu

[TanWL]

i aint no engineer. however, is it possible to use switches to re-tune circuit board?

if not how does orbita do it?

This is just my limited knowledge. Switches can tune but it will be a coarse adjustment, a better components to use will be a variable resistor which allows you to do fine adjustment. Another way will be to use an encoder, which helps to feedback the motor rpm, direction and angles. So with this info the circuit should be able to compensate the weight and aging of the motor by providing higher voltage to the motor.

[triton]

i aint no engineer. however, is it possible to use switches to re-tune circuit board?

if not how does orbita do it?

Lastly, can we get a motor that turns 6.02RPM?

*depending on winding angle, angular momentum, battery life, age of motor, etc.

[ten10]

Cool bro Triton, I’m glad someone agrees with me that high TPDs will damage a timepiece eventually.

Bro Triton, it really depends on which watch you’re referring to leh. Best is for the user to refer to the user manual to find out what TPD your watch requires, or look at Eilux and Orbita’s website.

Picture shows what I mean…






Ok Bro Triton, I’ll play along with you. So let’s be more precise then. The new sequence of the winder will be as follow: -

CW 3 minutes – Pause 37 minutes… repeats all day with the motor at 6.02rpm

- Rotor turns at 6.02rpm, thus in 3 minutes it provides 18.06 turns.
- One winding sequence (3 + 37 minutes) equals 40 minutes
- In a 24hr period (1440 minutes), there’ll be 1440 divided by 40 minutes = 36 such sequences; this means the sequence will be repeated 36 times in a day.
- Multiply 18.06 by 36 will give you 650.16 TPD

Now, as we know, different watches have different weights. And because of this, watch winder manufacturers would somehow compensate this by giving a slightly higher number of turns. I can’t and won’t divulge my formula here. From my past experience in designing & building winders, I’ve come across several instances where even battery-life (if running on batteries) of a winder do make the RPM slower towards the end.

So if we were to take a precise approach having exactly 6.02rpm, we will expect a drop when a watch is loaded onto the winding pod. This drop will translate to lowering the TPD by as much as *25%. If we factor in the battery-power dying, additional loss of RPM can be expected. The loaded pod will give approximately 488TPD.

As a manufacturer would also anticipate motor & gear aging, using AC Mains power would also result in loss of turns.

In short, there are a lot of factors to consider in making a well-engineered watch winder. It’s really not as simple as we think that a winder is just a box with a motor that turns…

Lastly, can we get a motor that turns 6.02RPM?

*depending on winding angle, angular momentum, battery life, age of motor, etc.

[triton]

i disagree with ten10.

i will neither buy brand ABC, XYZ and QQQ. why? most watches requires 650TPD. even with QQQ of 864TPD, it is still higher than the required TPD. the only major difference is that it slows down in 'damaging' the watch clutch to prevent its overwinding. even @ 864 TPD, it is still a good ~200 TPD and if you multiply it with 30 days, it is a good 6000 TPD more than average.

im not familiar with wolf design technical aspect, as such i am in no position to comment. a recent email to eilux indicates what it states on their website which is scary to me. i quote from eilux website - "EILUX Watch Winding System is preset for 950 TPD on 2-hour cycle mode and provides automatic reversing, that is the best mode for most automatic watches." (3rd last answer)

given this information, i will not even consider buying those eilux winder with the new motor. however, thank goodness, i still have a previous generation where can set TPD and direction.

however, i agree with ten10 that if you want to get a winder, get one which suits your needs. if the winder you buy that over wind your watch, it will damage your watch mechanism, the repair cost will be costly. so why take the risk.

im not saying that there are no cheap winder out there. be sure that you know what you are buying. get one that allows you to set the TPD and direction if your watches requires different TPD and direction.

[ten10]

A Fine Timepiece deserves a Good Watch Winder

There are so many watch winders in the market today. Some are very attractively priced while some others cost as much as a few grand. Many people have asked the same questions time and time again. Which is the best watch winder to buy?

To answer this question, ask how much does your watch cost?

As I’ve mentioned in my blogs (DIY Section), a good watch winder should provide just enough turns to maintain the state of wind in your timepiece. It should never overstress the mainspring and slip-clutch. My philosophy – Although a watch has an in-built “clutch-system”, never abuse it. Period!

Let’s start by giving you examples so that you can judge which winder will best suit you. I’m giving this example from a technical perspective. A hypothetical example…

Brand ABC
- Has 3 settings as follow
o Turn CW 5 minutes, pause 15 minutes… repeats whole day
o Turn CCW 5 minutes, pause 15 minutes… repeats whole day
o Turn CW 2.5 minutes, turns CCW 2.5 minutes, pause 15 minutes… repeats whole day
- Motor rotates at 9rpm (revolutions per minute)


Brand XYZ
- Has 3 settings as follow
o Turn CW 5 minutes, pause 15 minutes… repeats whole day
o Turn CCW 5 minutes, pause 15 minutes… repeats whole day
o Turn CW 2.5 minutes, turns CCW 2.5 minutes, pause 15 minutes… repeats whole day
- Motor rotates at 5rpm (revolutions per minute)

Which of the above brand would you choose? I’m putting aside all other factors, such as type of motor, angular momentum, motor torque, mechanical resistance, country of origin, size and aesthetics, leaving us with only the TPD to narrow our selection. I’m only taking the 1st setting too.

To start, what is the difference between the two brands? Yes, it’s the motor’s rpm! This simply means the number of rotations completed in one minute. Brand ABC rotates 9 times in a minute while Brand XYZ gives 5 turns per minute.

Taking Brand ABC to calculate the TPD: -
In the 1st setting the winder turns clockwise for 5 minutes and then pauses 15 minutes. It will repeat for 24 hours (1440 minutes)… until you turn-off the mains.

- Motor turns 9 times in one minute, thus in 5 minutes it will turn 45 times.
- One winding sequence equals (5 + 15 minutes =) 20 minutes.
- In a day (1440 minutes), there’ll be 1440 divide by 20 minutes = 72 sequences; this means that the (5 minutes-15 minutes) sequence will be repeated for 72 times.
- Multiple 45 by 72 = 3240 TPD; this means your watch will turn 3,240 times in a clockwise direction.

Taking Brand XYZ to calculate the TPD: -
In the 1st setting the winder turns clockwise for 5 minutes and then pauses 15 minutes. It will repeat for 24 hours (1440 minutes)... until the mains is switched off. Brand ABC has the same winding sequence but with different motor speed, i.e. 5rpm.

- Motor turns 5 times in one minute, thus in 5 minutes it will turn 25 times.
- One winding sequence equals (5 + 15 minutes =) 20 minutes.
- In a day (1440 minutes), there’ll be 1440 divide by 20 minutes = 72 sequence; this means that the (5 minutes-15 minutes) sequence will be repeated for 72 times.
- Multiple 25 by 72 = 1800 TPD; this means your watch will turn 1,800 times in a clockwise direction.


So which winder would you choose? If I’ve the choice, I’ll choose neither.

Every winder with a Direct-drive or Belt-drive System delivers TPD. It CAN BE CALCULATED! In short, ‘IF IT TURNS… THERE’S TURNS PER DAY”. Logically, all motors rotate unless the winder swings like a pendulum!

Let’s introduce another winder, Brand QQQ

Brand QQQ
- Has also 3 settings as follow
o Turn CW 3 minutes, pause 27 minutes… repeats whole day
o Turn CCW 3 minutes, pause 27 minutes… repeats whole day
o Turn CW 1.5 minute, turns CCW 1.5 minute, pause 27 minutes… repeats whole day
- Motor rotates at 6rpm (revolutions per minute)

Taking Brand QQQ to calculate the TPD: -
In the 1st setting the winder turns clockwise for 3 minutes and then pauses 27 minutes. It will repeat for 24 hours (1440 minutes)... unless you turn off the switch. This winding sequence is different from Brand ABC & XYZ.

- Motor turns 6 times in one minute, thus in 3 minutes it will rotate 18 times.
- One winding sequence equals (3 + 27 minutes =) 30 minutes.
- In a day (1440 minutes), there’ll be 1440 divide by 30 minutes = 48 sequences; this means that the (3 minutes-27 minutes) sequence will be repeated for 48 times.
- Multiple 18 by 48 = 864 TPD; this means your watch will turn 864 times in a clockwise direction.

Comparing Brand ABC, XYZ and QQQ, the latter delivers TPD (Turns per Day) closer to an average winding requirement. If given a choice, I’ll choose Brand QQQ but that's me.

Many people, especially the AD, give me the impression they don’t have in-depth knowledge about watch winders. They are more interested in selling watch winders. You’ll usually hear statements like, “Don’t worry about over-winding because all watches have a “clutch” system that prevents this”. My philosophy is… “Although all watches (not vintage) have such mechanism, WHY abuse it less wearing out that component.”

Let’s carry on calculating the TPD in settings #2 and #3 for Brand QQQ.
In setting #2, the winder has the same winding sequence as setting #1 but in the opposite direction. So this means, it’ll deliver 864 TPD in the CCW direction.

In setting #3, the winding time is split half to the CW direction and the other half goes to the CCW direction. This results in getting 432 TPD in the CW direction and 432 TPD in the CCW direction. For a watch that winds bi-directionally, the total of 864 TPD will be given.

Calculations: -
The motor turns 6 times in one minute, thus in 1.5 minutes, it turns 9 times.

The total winding sequence is 1.5 + 1.5 + 27 minutes = 30 minutes.

1440 minutes (or 24 hours) divide by 30 minutes is 48. It means the sequence will be repeated 48 times in a day.

Multiply 9 by 48 gives you 432 TPD for the CW direction.
Multiply 9 by 48 gives you 432 TPD for the CCW direction.
The total TPD this winder delivers for a bi-directional winding watch is 432 + 432 = 864TPD.

Most watches require up to only 900TPD.

One last note: Have you ever notice the way you walk when you’re wearing an automatic watch? Do you swing your arm a full 360 degrees? Every swing (forward and backward swing) of the arm is approximately +/- 15 degrees or so. And how far do you walk a day? For sure, your automatic watch will not be subjected to more that 1,000 TPD everyday. So will you place your watch in a winder that gives more TPDs? Benchmark your winder with a professional unit such as Orbita, Eilux and Wolf Designs, and you’ll make a perfectly happy buy. Don't buy a piece of "furniture" that may just end up storing watches only.

Be prudent with your money, your watch and your watch winders! A fine timepiece deserves a Good Watch Winder.

Cheers!

[kamensng]

I just got myself 1 of this too. Quite decent considering the price. And its in my bedroom, but I don't hear a thing so far, so I guess its considered quite quiet. Managed to get it cheap too ... inclusive of shipping, cost me total of $94 SGD.

hi bro, where u get this cheap & good winder from? thanks

[circular]

Didnt know we have a thread on winders ! Well, here's a cheap and good one of mine






Runs on both AC and DC (4 x AAs). Very very silent and watches seems to keep decent time on it. Amazing quality piece made in China.

Where can i purchase one of these from?

[steve75]

I just got myself 1 of this too. Quite decent considering the price. And its in my bedroom, but I don't hear a thing so far, so I guess its considered quite quiet. Managed to get it cheap too ... inclusive of shipping, cost me total of $94 SGD.

Hi, me keen on this as well, just to check.. The power adapter able to be use here-230-240v? Understand that it's meant for US-110v ..

Thanks in advance.. Cheers

[P88]

i say save your taka vouchers for something else. if you dont mind a couple of years old eilux triple winder, you can pm me and discuss about the price.

Pm sent. :-)

[triton]

i say save your taka vouchers for something else. if you dont mind a couple of years old eilux triple winder, you can pm me and discuss about the price.

Thank you for your advise. Had done so and found the information i need on Orbita's website. Next step will be to shop around. Have some taka vouchers so wondering if a recommended winder can be purchased there.

[ten10]

Happy Hunting!!!

[P88]

Hi P88,

I'm a newbie here too.
Search Eilux or Orbita website for all your answers...
Their database is excellent and very helpful.

Thank you for your advise. Had done so and found the information i need on Orbita's website. Next step will be to shop around. Have some taka vouchers so wondering if a recommended winder can be purchased there.