Should I be flattered or.........

[pegasi]

No wonder u missed out on the sawtooth I bought.....

Dun say I never tell u..... There's an orange dial up for sale at seiko garage! Dun miss!

Haha..couldn't help giving a 赞 to an unbiased view that doesn't point finger and ends with a positive note.

Ok I go see see..pardon us for the OT..you guys please carry on

[t28]

Best post in this thread so far

No wonder u missed out on the sawtooth I bought.....

Dun say I never tell u..... There's an orange dial up for sale at seiko garage! Dun miss!

[wolfeyes1974]

thanks for clarifying

nothing snobbish in getting all original - just personnel preference
but seriosuly you should try some of these aftermarket straps - they rock!
eg tedsu ammo, kaktus drifter, dirk sharkie, d9 ammo, GSD crazy horse - these are cult status!

about friendship - i have added you as friend

Thank you my friend! : )

[shuseido]

After read up 7 pages long.... You have my respect.... wolfeyes bro....

[pegasi]

Like i mentioned - i'm not referring to those that pammy OEM can't provide hence they're considered exceptions (their quality may/may not be better and i'm not questioning about their quality here). undeniably, there're also a lot of similar pammy lookalike straps around which members bought..there're also a lot of pammy-alike buckles for example? While i've heard of some of the names of the strapmakers that you've mentioned here, i'm not entirely familiar with their product lines/variations because i've never bought any non-oem straps. i hope i don't sound snobbish but it's just me that i prefer everything original and doesn't mind paying a bit more. You know, it's like if you own a car then don't fret over ERP charges, parking fees and etc because it's all part of onwership.

I'm not referring to the "technicalities" or subtle differences here - comparison on what some of the aftermarket straps vs OEM - but the principle of supporting OEM as stated in your post because supporting similar looking non-oem/copy cats is considered primitive and daylight robbery. While i understand your position and strong conviction against copycats but yet i feel we should all look at our own behaviours and be responsible for our word/actions before pointing fingers (this is not directed to you). Why do we only support ten10's products but have a different standard when it comes to other things?

Supporting ten10 because it's his livelihood and we know him is very commendable but in reality it's unfortunate that his products are subject to copying because they're general consumer products (not proprietary technology). And consumers will go for a watch box that meets basic function and at the most reasonable price or affordability. Yes i would buy a watch box from ten10 but i'll also open myself to options that provide the same functionality, offers similar quality and perhaps at a cheaper price? Everyone consider different factors when it comes to a purchase.

I'm not perfect and i don't support piracy. i buy pirated dvds and download songs for my iphone but other than that i make it a point to buy original stuff as much as possible. doing my little bits.

i just feel that there's no need for words war and hoohaa about this because i didn't see many sales thread from Watch R selling a lot of these watch boxes (merely one because like he explained that's because his friend didn't want it anymore). Perhaps this could have been easily clarified through phone/facebook since TC already know who's the person who posted this watch for sale in the first place? Sueing here or there, irresponsible words, harsh tones, any form of intimidation is totally unnecessary.

i look forward to a friendlier forum where information/threads serves to help members understand more about watches and cultivate friendships.

cheers

Best post in this thread so far

[mojojojay]

respect to you wolfeyes1974 ! thats how a mod should have step in rather then taking sides with TS over this matter . causing a member to remove sales thread and another being ban .
and those who stood up to support a 'friend' , i dont see how his livelihood is being threaten since he selling it as limited edition and there's only that amount of boxes he have . and those who spit on copycats ,counterfeits , 山寨edition .... take a step back and look at what TS is doing fulltime as wolfeyes1974 mention , they are general consumer products ... back TS up when he INVENT something he can call his own .
that being said , lastly TS is not a damsel in distress , so warriors can put away their weapons and let TS do his own fight , its HIS reputation NOT anyone elses he gotta protect on his OWN .

[wolfeyes1974]

Valid point, James. At least it makes me rethink my position in this issue. I am not sure if I stood up because of "supportive" of OEMs.

I think I stood up to support a friend, who livelihood is threaten.

And yes I do at times buy homage or copied products, or whatever you may call them.

Great stuff that you're supporting a friend! : ) I would love to have you as a friend.

A product is usually developed with some purpose in mind:

1. replace current product
2. introduce a better version
3. provide cheaper alternatives to consumers

Everyone has families to feed, a reality, for good or worse. I guess we can't comment on watch r/ten10 financial situations which is pointless in this discussion anyway. Personally, i don't think TC should feel either flattered or upset...It's all part of being an entrepreneur/business with such risks associated from competition. If the need is to clarify the originality of the advertised product, it can be done via phone/facebook between the 2 parties.

[wolfeyes1974]

山寨 means the design is copied exactly

there are alot of aftermarket straps that have their own designs that is totally different from panerai straps
eg tedsu ammo, ray hornback, kaktus drifter, landa, dirk, d9, GSD, JNS just to name a few

Like i mentioned - i'm not referring to those that pammy OEM can't provide hence they're considered exceptions (their quality may/may not be better and i'm not questioning about their quality here). undeniably, there're also a lot of similar pammy lookalike straps around which members bought..there're also a lot of pammy-alike buckles for example? While i've heard of some of the names of the strapmakers that you've mentioned here, i'm not entirely familiar with their product lines/variations because i've never bought any non-oem straps. i hope i don't sound snobbish but it's just me that i prefer everything original and doesn't mind paying a bit more. You know, it's like if you own a car then don't fret over ERP charges, parking fees and etc because it's all part of onwership.

I'm not referring to the "technicalities" or subtle differences here - comparison on what some of the aftermarket straps vs OEM - but the principle of supporting OEM as stated in your post because supporting similar looking non-oem/copy cats is considered primitive and daylight robbery. While i understand your position and strong conviction against copycats but yet i feel we should all look at our own behaviours and be responsible for our word/actions before pointing fingers (this is not directed to you). Why do we only support ten10's products but have a different standard when it comes to other things?

Supporting ten10 because it's his livelihood and we know him is very commendable but in reality it's unfortunate that his products are subject to copying because they're general consumer products (not proprietary technology). And consumers will go for a watch box that meets basic function and at the most reasonable price or affordability. Yes i would buy a watch box from ten10 but i'll also open myself to options that provide the same functionality, offers similar quality and perhaps at a cheaper price? Everyone consider different factors when it comes to a purchase.

I'm not perfect and i don't support piracy. i buy pirated dvds and download songs for my iphone but other than that i make it a point to buy original stuff as much as possible. doing my little bits.

i just feel that there's no need for words war and hoohaa about this because i didn't see many sales thread from Watch R selling a lot of these watch boxes (merely one because like he explained that's because his friend didn't want it anymore). Perhaps this could have been easily clarified through phone/facebook since TC already know who's the person who posted this watch for sale in the first place? Sueing here or there, irresponsible words, harsh tones, any form of intimidation is totally unnecessary.

i look forward to a friendlier forum where information/threads serves to help members understand more about watches and cultivate friendships.

cheers

[TanWL]

I have to agree with you that "many people behave this way", but does it means it is correct. Yes and No. Because of our Asian culture we are not bought up to respect individual IP. Only until recent years we hear alot of IP.

If such cases were to happen in a ang mo place. I wouldn't be surprise that all will put up their hands to condemn copycat with or without copyright applied. Copyright only favour the rich, poor inventor were got money to apply copyright.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Are we brave enough to make a different.

(This is something that I also need to change)

[pegasi]

my few cents worth..

i hope i don't sound rude here...but many people behave this way. Let me give you an example: Do you fit your Panerai with their original leather straps (asso/JV/Gator) or do you buy "similar" straps to fit your real pam just because they're cheaper? Aren't compatible straps "copycats"? Of course, i'm not referring to customed "python", "ostrich", "colourful" straps that OEM Pammy straps doesn't have in its range..these are exceptions

I wonder at times why the hoohaa in this case when many members here used non-original straps mounted on their precious timepieces? There're a lot of watch boxes "similar" in design. A member here is correct to say that some boxes here seem to be inspired by Pammy. Primitive consumer behaviour?

While i empathize with bro ten10, it hurts to spend time and efforts to make this box...but there's no copyright applied for it. Especially in general consumer products - there're a lot "inspirations", "fakes" and "similarities" (whatever terms used by people, blunt or subtle).

I think the support and empathy displayed by many members here to bro ten10 is great thing and very commendable but how many of us are truly "supportive" of OEMs? When we point a finger at something/someone, 4 fingers are pointing back at us.

Valid point, James. At least it makes me rethink my position in this issue. I am not sure if I stood up because of "supportive" of OEMs.

I think I stood up to support a friend, who livelihood is threaten.

And yes I do at times buy homage or copied products, or whatever you may call them.

[wolfeyes1974]

i despise counterfeits aka 山寨 'mountain village copies'
see wiki definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanzhai

no matter how cheap they sell or how closely they are made to copy the original products, they are just copycats who try to reap benefits from the creativity of the originators

so why is some people so supportive of 山寨 products eg fake iphone or fake rolex - very simple - they are primitive consumer misbehavior - they think they get a good deal at a low price - truth is, its gang robbery in broad daylight

copyright or no copyright registered is another issue
IPOS just makes the recovery a bit easier, but damage is already done

shame on these copycats
*spit*
*spit*

my few cents worth..

i hope i don't sound rude here...but many people behave this way. Let me give you an example: Do you fit your Panerai with their original leather straps (asso/JV/Gator) or do you buy "similar" straps to fit your real pam just because they're cheaper? Aren't compatible straps "copycats"? Of course, i'm not referring to customed "python", "ostrich", "colourful" straps that OEM Pammy straps doesn't have in its range..these are exceptions

I wonder at times why the hoohaa in this case when many members here used non-original straps mounted on their precious timepieces? There're a lot of watch boxes "similar" in design. A member here is correct to say that some boxes here seem to be inspired by Pammy.
While i empathize with bro ten10, it hurts to spend time and efforts to make this box...but there's no copyright applied for it. Especially in general consumer products - there're a lot "inspirations", "fakes" and "similarities" (whatever terms used by people, blunt or subtle).

I think the support and empathy displayed by many members here to bro ten10 is great thing and very commendable but how many of us are truly "supportive" of OEMs? When we point a finger at something/someone, 4 fingers are pointing back at us.

Primitive consumer behaviour?

[pegasi]

- decided to remove what I've mentioned, lest some people think that I am not objective in what I want to say -

That shows that you are mindful of your words. Such quality does not come by nature.

A certain Ms Yan from this forum taught me this more than a year ago: "If there isn't any good thing to say, don't say". At times I still forget.

[Tricolore]

- decided to remove what I've mentioned, lest some people think that I am not objective in what I want to say -

[eeyer]

you should be happy.
we are proud of you!

[kenkelvin]

you very blur ho? Didnt read post by the original poster first page and enter ask so many questions?wasted my time read your post pui!

Bro relax lei. There are so many versions that I do not know which is which? No need get so angry k