Resale Value - Panerai

[SGMagpies]

Well. Totally agree.

The talk on the grapevine to get from the secondary market since there are quite a number of collectors giving up on the brand. This is because they no longer see any basis for brand loyalty given how much prices have fallen and how Panerai messed up with the number of SEs and similar looking models flooding the market.

For new entrants, probably a good time to get some pieces at decent prices.

[undertaker]

hahaha. me 2 waiting for a good price

[rolexbaby]

i truly hope panerai resale value drop like a bomb so i can pick up at cheap price LOL

[Chronopals]

Popular means good resale.

[FullHouse]

I was in orchard rd yesterday. Spotted at least 5 panerais in takashimaya in less than 3 hrs. Myself included then 6 pams.

Was having dinner at UE square last evening. There's table of PRCs with rolex and pams.

Very common to see it even when taking MRT, at least 3 to 4 persons wearing Pams too.

Hence, this brand is popular and easy to be seem on the wrists.

[wlover]

I was in orchard rd yesterday. Spotted at least 5 panerais in takashimaya in less than 3 hrs. Myself included then 6 pams.

Was having dinner at UE square last evening. There's table of PRCs with rolex and pams.

[Ryuden]

...one key factor in making a purchase at the given price points at which Panerai operates is the resale value. Your argument makes perfect commercial sense but if you think from a Brand lens....the reality is the rarity of the model is part of the appeal...

This is exactly what Panerai was all about up till 2009/2010. The resale value of Pams were still strong. Why? Because there were just a couple of models here and there and the SEs were so hard to get that it command premium prices. Matter of fact, the resale value of SEs exceed what the company make by triple fold. Dealers, auction houses, consumers, everyone wanted a Panerai. But it was so few available that those who wants one don't mind paying premium for this exclusive huge wrist clock.

Surely Panerai have thought about it don't they? But...they didn't make any move...yet. Not until more voices were echoed via the most popular unaffiliated Panerai forum...Paneristi.com.

Everyone in that forum kept telling Panerai to produced more so that they don't have to be a victim of resellers selling at crazy prices and this is a known fact that Panerai monitor the forum closely. And what Panerai did, hell yeah, make more! But wait, isn't rarity the Dna of Panerai? Ok done. We will make more SEs and create a perception of scarcity and oh, at the same time release a regular limited production model that looks similar to the SEs...nah, these chaps won't say a thing...we be fine.

And when there's so many of these rare models and similar regular ones...one would wonder what's rare then?

So yes, Bonati have looked through his lens when he ate his own words during a press interview about the 382 being the ONLY bronze piece the company will ever produced.

..a christies auction recently ...almost all the PAMs were unsold except a few of them which were either made with precious metal or special material like ceramic. This impacts buyers sentiments..unless they want to be Hublot (if they are already not) in the future...their modus operand is perfect ...whether that succeeds or not ..at the cost if their fans ..remains to be seen.I can bet they would have to rethink sooner than later.

There's already an impact, else we won't be here discussing about this. Not comparing them with Hublot cause in my view, Panerai is still the master of limited production and Special Edition. It was too successful that other brands are foolish not to copy their successful recipe.

I would agree with you that sooner or later they have to rethink...but for now. They are doing very well...capturing new markets and new consumers (matters not they are losing the hardcore fans that once breath and live the brand)...don't think they are looking back now.

Based on recent released, they are recreating themselves into a horological manufacture.

[amitabh]

Yes, you were one of the few close ones I shared my thoughts and yes I remembered that coffee shop and a pity it have to make way for new development.

Panerai if they adopt the Rolex way, putting the couple of main models and repetitive EXP: Pam 000,111,210 and 233 (EXAMPLE ONLY) as main models like Rolex putting Submariner, Submariner Date, Gmt and Explorer, perhaps...just perhaps their brand wouldn't be as diluted as it is now. But that's just theoretically speaking.

All they could have done is to keep the models to a minimum. Since 1998 till maybe 2010, the amount of Special Edition have been very very very limited. Maybe around 2 to 3 MAX a year. And that makes the acquiring of SE models the highlight of the brand and for those who doesn't get one, the normal models are as good as they can get. Which is a perfectly fine business model.

But once they decided to released 7 to 11 SEs a year, it seems like acquiring the SE doesn't seem to be unrealistic anymore as buyers are spoilt for choices and since one can buy any SEs, what's the lure of getting the normal models then?

Thus their own killer, I feel, was their very own success...the Special Editions. With too many coming out, there's so much one can recycle the design and look and similarity it seems is the Panerai way.

Surviving? Not really...they are actually thriving...they have never gotten as popular as they are right now. Which is great. They need not care about how much their watches fetch and selling in the secondary market. They don't make anything from the secondary market thus what they do is to produce similar and at times remakes of past converted models which directly affect the preowned models. Why buy used preowned when you can get similar one brand new? They want you to spend money on new retail models than used secondary models.

Surely for Panerai, it's not the fittest survive...it's the "laboratory of ideas" if you get what I mean.

explained really well. However, one key factor in making a purchase at the given price points at which Panerai operates is the resale value. Your argument makes perfect commercial sense but if you think from a Brand lens....the reality is the rarity of the model is part of the appeal. I was in a christies auction recently ...almost all the PAMs were unsold except a few of them which were either made with precious metal or special material like ceramic. This impacts buyers sentiments..unless they want to be Hublot (if they are already not) in the future. Your understanding of their modus operand is perfect ...whether that succeeds or not ..at the cost if their fans ..remains to be seen.I can bet they would have to rethink sooner than later.

[Ryuden]

...panerai itself does have its unique feature - the case. when you see the case, you know it is a panerai. maybe they are trying to move panerai the Rolex way?

remember i ask you before several years back at a coffee shop in marine parade? i ask you if panerai goes the rolex way, will panerai survive? i believe it will. the coffee shop that we met is no longer there. things evolve and change.

the motto - the fittest survive.

Yes, you were one of the few close ones I shared my thoughts and yes I remembered that coffee shop and a pity it have to make way for new development.

Panerai if they adopt the Rolex way, putting couple of main models and repetitive exp: Pam 000,111,210 and 233 (EXAMPLE ONLY) as a main models like Rolex putting Submariner, Submariner Date, Gmt and Explorer, perhaps...just perhaps their brand wouldn't be as diluted as it is now. But that's just theoretically speaking.

All they could have done is to keep the models to a minimum. Since 1998 till maybe 2010, the amount of Special Edition have been very very very limited. Maybe around 2 to 3 MAX a year. And that makes the acquiring of SE models the highlight of the brand and for those who doesn't get one, the normal models are as good as they can get. Which is a perfectly fine business model.

But once they decided to released 7 to 11 SEs a year, it seems like acquiring the SE doesn't seems to be unrealistic anymore as buyers are spoilt for choices and since one can buy any SEs, what's the lure for getting the normal models then?

Thus their own killer, I feel, was their very own success...the Special Editions. With too many coming out, there's so much one can recycle the design and look and similarity it seems is the Panerai way.

Surviving? Not really...they are actually thriving...they have never gotten as popular as they are right now. Which is great. They need not care about how much their watches fetch and selling in the secondary market. They don't make anything from the secondary market thus what they do is to produce similar and at times remakes of past converted models which directly affect the preowned models. Why buy used preowned when you can get similar one brand new? They want you to spend money on new retail models than used secondary models.

Surely for Panerai, it's not the fittest survive...it's the "laboratory of ideas" if you get what I mean.

[Ryuden]

...the company have truly grown. over the past decade, they have watches, liquor - Hennessy + others , luggage - rimowa, bicycle - pinarello, cosemetic, etc under their company. the company seems to be moving towards luxury lifestyle.

it seems to be that the company is following the template that the brand sells itself. when you see a rimowa @ the carousell at the airport, you know it is a rimowa because it has its signature. the pinarello bicycle is used by team sky who has dominated the podium finish on the world's most renowned cycling - tour de france for the past few years...

This is LVMH not Swatch Group. No doubt from the beginning of the creation of this LVMH group it's all about luxury and lifestyle.

The Swatch Group is the purest of all groups as they only have watch related brands under them which also include watch movement makers and they wanted to control the entire Swiss watch industry by stopping movement supply to the competitors.

Richemont majority are watch brands including the current topic brand, Panerai, plus couple of luxury clothing brand.

LVMH brands are a mix of a lot of category like you highlighted, from watches to liquor to cosmetic and many others.

[triton]

i italicized and underlined one of your comment which i stand corrected. the company have truly grown. over the past decade, they have watches, liquor - Hennessy + others , luggage - rimowa, bicycle - pinarello, cosemetic, etc under their company. the company seems to be moving towards luxury lifestyle.

it seems to be that the company is following the template that the brand sells itself. when you see a rimowa @ the carousell at the airport, you know it is a rimowa because it has its signature. the pinarello bicycle is used by team sky who has dominated the podium finish on the world's most renowned cycling - tour de france for the past few years.

panerai itself does have its unique feature - the case. when you see the case, you know it is a panerai. maybe they are trying to move panerai the Rolex way?

remember i ask you before several years back at a coffee shop in marine parade? i ask you if panerai goes the rolex way, will panerai survive? i believe it will. the coffee shop that we met is no longer there. things evolve and change.

the motto - the fittest survive.

There's so much I can talk about Panerai. I have shared some of my opinions openly via a few threads I started and posts I have posted in others threads.

The bottom line is, like Swatch Group (the crazy company who wanted to rule the watch world) and LVMH (a group who wanted to grow like the big boys), Richemont (the one in the middle) is a group of companies that have to answer to their shareholders and board of directors and milking every single brand under their group is not an option or a choice, it's business.



There's an interesting write up about "Panerai does not really care whether the stories that were passed on when Cartier/Vendome bought the brand name and the remaining stock of the original Panerai company in 1997 are true or not."

Here's the link to a very interesting site of the brand and the quote was taken directly from it.

https://perezcope.com/2017/02/08/vin...tion-purposes/

So yes, I have to agree with your point above and they are willing to risk such a move because the true nature of the true history of the brand is so grey that it matters not to Richemont if it's real or not. They just don't care as long as it sells, why would they care. Hell, even the CEO said things that contradict his actions. That really pissed off many many Ristis.

And my final point...I have shared this with some of my closest Ristis friends whom I have made more than any other brands...the real movers of Panerai were the hardcore Risti. These crazy fanatic hardcore fans are the ones that's willing to fork out those ridiculous obscene amount of money for a Panerai. For $50,000, which one would you buy? A 201A or a 233 PLUS 311?

For a true hardcore Risti, no doubt the 201A but for some who just wanted a Panerai, surely the in-house movt is the selling point. Who's crazy enough to pay $50,000 for a $200 ETA movement? The hardcore Ristis. But now that most of them (not all) are gone, the new era of Panerai followers dictate the market plus the endless choices one is spoilt for contributes largely as well. Now, not only the new models are taking a hit, the vintages are as well.

Also regarding the so-called "in house" movements are not really in house from Panerai, but rather a shared movement factory within the Richemont group.

And I have not even touch on the SEs yet. The reproduction of too many SEs was the final blow to the Ristis.

Maybe I am just old skool, the Panerai I knew was bonded by grown men and ladies who shared the same passion for this brand making it exclusive and special. And just like Panerai now which they have moved on and evolved, the fine gents and ladies of this brand which I built a bond with have moved on as well...to other brands.

[Ryuden]

thanks for the correction ....
:-)

LVMH - Richmont point remains same ...what do u feel?

There's so much I can talk about Panerai. I have shared some of my opinions openly via a few threads I started and posts I have posted in others threads.

The bottom line is, like Swatch Group (the crazy company who wanted to rule the watch world) and LVMH (a group who wanted to grow like the big boys), Richemont (the one in the middle) is a group of companies that have to answer to their shareholders and board of directors and milking every single brand under their group is not an option or a choice, it's business.

...bosses may have decided to milk this brand ..perhaps having little understanding of the heritage and risk involved ....

There's an interesting write up about "Panerai does not really care whether the stories that were passed on when Cartier/Vendome bought the brand name and the remaining stock of the original Panerai company in 1997 are true or not."

Here's the link to a very interesting site of the brand and the quote was taken directly from it.

https://perezcope.com/2017/02/08/vin...tion-purposes/

So yes, I have to agree with your point above and they are willing to risk such a move because the true nature of the true history of the brand is so grey that it matters not to Richemont if it's real or not. They just don't care as long as it sells, why would they care. Hell, even the CEO said things that contradict his actions. That really pissed off many many Ristis.

And my final point...I have shared this with some of my closest Ristis friends whom I have made more than any other brands...the real movers of Panerai were the hardcore Risti. These crazy fanatic hardcore fans are the ones that's willing to fork out those ridiculous obscene amount of money for a Panerai. For $50,000, which one would you buy? A 201A or a 233 PLUS 311?

For a true hardcore Risti, no doubt the 201A but for some who just wanted a Panerai, surely the in-house movt is the selling point. Who's crazy enough to pay $50,000 for a $200 ETA movement? The hardcore Ristis. But now that most of them (not all) are gone, the new era of Panerai followers dictate the market plus the endless choices one is spoilt for contributes largely as well. Now, not only the new models are taking a hit, the vintages are as well.

Also regarding the so-called "in house" movements are not really in house from Panerai, but rather a shared movement factory within the Richemont group.

And I have not even touch on the SEs yet. The reproduction of too many SEs was the final blow to the Ristis.

Maybe I am just old skool, the Panerai I knew was bonded by grown men and ladies who shared the same passion for this brand making it exclusive and special. And just like Panerai now which they have moved on and evolved, the fine gents and ladies of this brand which I built a bond with have moved on as well...to other brands.

[gugglez]

resale value for used Panerai has dropped alot since 2016
the brand is losing appeal fast

[amitabh]

If you are referring to Panerai, they are under Richemont. Tag and Hublot is under LVMH.

thanks for the correction ....
:-)

LVMH - Richmont point remains same ...what do u feel?

[Ryuden]

i feel that LVMH takeover has something to do with this . LVMH bosses may have decided to milk this brand ..perhaps having little understanding of the heritage and risk involved .

i have written to them complaining about the state of affiars . Seems they have a problem with the channel level also......selling thru grey market now .

coupled with that no support on marketing ....even their facebook page dosnt get updated . Agree on all the points mentioned above from a product perspective

If you are referring to Panerai, they are under Richemont. Tag and Hublot is under LVMH.