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i refer to a recently bumped thread...
http://www.sg-roc.com/threads/17786-Role-of-a-Lifetime
and another recent comment in another thread...
http://www.sg-roc.com/threads/50-Rol...058#post503058
i had the opportunity this weekend to have a serious discussion with another collector and a european journalist about the directions/strategies that rolex collectors should be heading/adopting...
so here are my grumbles.
over a year ago, i have stopped buying vintage rolex watches and started to concentrate on buying vintage parts instead. i am hoarding as many parts as possible these days, but earlier in my hobby, i started off buying only the parts required to service the watches in my collection.
now i'm saving instead to buy neo-vintage rolex with potential values - what i expect prices to be in future when they go up for auction. in other words, i'm buying smarter yet fewer but more expensive pieces.
examples include 16550-cream, 16710-3186, 16600 and 1661x with rare dials and daytonas with unique dials.
why?
rolex has almost totally, if not totally integrated itself into a full manufacture. nothing is outsourced any more. they also have a new building which will integrate everything in-house (literally) and to increase production volume.
rolex has also been known to manipulate the market by buying back watches and trying to ensure ADs do not discount (without permission). they do so for their bottom line and image.
rolex has reduced its network of rolex authorized dealers and tighten policies at rolex service centres (try buying a pair of flush fit end links without parts exchange, or servicing a 1680 with worn out serial/model no, or... i can go on but i won't!). watchmakers with rolex parts account have been/are also having their accounts terminated. rolex authorized service centers are being reduced one by one.
until recently, the swiss dollar has been very strong. price increases will be the norm whether the CHF is weak or strong. rolex wants to make more watches and rolex wants to sell more watches.
the logical way is to make more watches that consumer wants to buy, especially by targeting existing rolex watch owners/collectors (black out 39mm explorer and 42mm explorer 2 and ceramic daytona).
this also means the only logical way forward is to make servicing watches costly enough that it would make more sense to buy a new(er) watch than to service an older one.
this translate to guaranteed increasing service costs at RSCs/RASCs in future and a reduction in available parts for vintage watches (no parts = no service).
i no longer see vintage rolex watches as something that will be worth the "high" of finding and buying a "grail" - the cost is moving towards that of other brands which carry more cachet...
(how far apart must the price be for a rolex steel sub vs PP nautilus for you to choose the nautilus over the sub?)
day-date dials i bought 10 years ago from dealers cost only $100-$150. these go for US$350-$550 today from the same dealers.
servicing costs for a day-date used to cost $450-$550. it now costs $1,000.
the prices for sport rolex parts and servicing are equally if not more ridiculous.
for my "modern" collectibles, it is easier to obtain parts and hoard them. i can bring these parts to any good watchmaker and they can service it properly.
for vintage pieces, this is becoming difficult and increasingly expensive.
the collection "worth" of a rolex is also decreasing in my eyes - i will do better using the same amount of money buying PP/AP/VC.
i am not bashing rolex because many other companies are doing the same - increasing their prices but i do not necessarily see the corresponding increase in useful innovation (many of the touted paraXXXXX are due to vertical integration and used for marketing - they makes no difference between the old outsourced parts for 99% of the buyers).
rolex is controlled by an entity registered as a foundation which requires them to pay no tax. they are doing it for profit. buying a rolex is not supporting a charity. what they do by way of charitable acts nobody knows. what they do by way of marketing everybody sees (and covets) and IMO, being the giant marketing machine that they are, rolex would probably reveal more about charitable causes it supports if it does so.
(supporting watch makers' courses is not a charitable cause IMO but again for commercial gain because they need watch makers)
since everybody is now capable of producing water proof watch cases, i no longer see a need (as a collector/hobbyist) to marvel in the drug that is "rolex" or the oyster - there are many other established brands out there which produce a good product at reasonable prices (Girard-Perregaux and JLC comes to mind).
will i be throwing out my rolex collection? no. but i will be cutting down the pieces i have. will i say that rolex makes lousy watches? no. they make good watches but i think they are over-valued. do i still have love for rolex? yes. but it's definitely been reduced because of their restructuring and policies of recent times.
in fact, my current plan is to sell some extra pieces in my collection so that i can buy a WG/PT day-date (36mm 11xxxx) - but that will probably be the last rolex watch i buy.
but if all the above-mentioned policies worsens or comes true, it is very likely that i will swear off rolex entirely - but make no mistake, for every person that does this, there will be more that will become intoxicated by the rolex poison - the rolex marketing machine is 2nd to none! a collector will always have a rolex (or two, or more) pass through their hands.
so will this post be one that will end up with and older and (hopefully) wiser me saying "hey, i started out with rolex, went on to other brands because rolex is awful, but i have now come full circle and ended up with a rolex again because i'm wrong and rolex is still the best" - i strongly doubt so (bearing in mind that hindsight is always 20/20) because i am still keeping most of my rolex collection and because of the above.
...between a $9k (used) rolex maxi-sub or an $9k (used) JLC 300m diver, i recently picked up the JLC. no regrets because the romance i have with rolex is probably over.
the married men out there; you know what i mean! i will continue to think about the good times of the rolex from the past... but the future of my relationship with this brand will be one that is realistic and probably painful.
http://www.sg-roc.com/threads/17786-Role-of-a-Lifetime
and another recent comment in another thread...
http://www.sg-roc.com/threads/50-Rol...058#post503058
i had the opportunity this weekend to have a serious discussion with another collector and a european journalist about the directions/strategies that rolex collectors should be heading/adopting...
so here are my grumbles.
over a year ago, i have stopped buying vintage rolex watches and started to concentrate on buying vintage parts instead. i am hoarding as many parts as possible these days, but earlier in my hobby, i started off buying only the parts required to service the watches in my collection.
now i'm saving instead to buy neo-vintage rolex with potential values - what i expect prices to be in future when they go up for auction. in other words, i'm buying smarter yet fewer but more expensive pieces.
examples include 16550-cream, 16710-3186, 16600 and 1661x with rare dials and daytonas with unique dials.
why?
rolex has almost totally, if not totally integrated itself into a full manufacture. nothing is outsourced any more. they also have a new building which will integrate everything in-house (literally) and to increase production volume.
rolex has also been known to manipulate the market by buying back watches and trying to ensure ADs do not discount (without permission). they do so for their bottom line and image.
rolex has reduced its network of rolex authorized dealers and tighten policies at rolex service centres (try buying a pair of flush fit end links without parts exchange, or servicing a 1680 with worn out serial/model no, or... i can go on but i won't!). watchmakers with rolex parts account have been/are also having their accounts terminated. rolex authorized service centers are being reduced one by one.
until recently, the swiss dollar has been very strong. price increases will be the norm whether the CHF is weak or strong. rolex wants to make more watches and rolex wants to sell more watches.
the logical way is to make more watches that consumer wants to buy, especially by targeting existing rolex watch owners/collectors (black out 39mm explorer and 42mm explorer 2 and ceramic daytona).
this also means the only logical way forward is to make servicing watches costly enough that it would make more sense to buy a new(er) watch than to service an older one.
this translate to guaranteed increasing service costs at RSCs/RASCs in future and a reduction in available parts for vintage watches (no parts = no service).
i no longer see vintage rolex watches as something that will be worth the "high" of finding and buying a "grail" - the cost is moving towards that of other brands which carry more cachet...
(how far apart must the price be for a rolex steel sub vs PP nautilus for you to choose the nautilus over the sub?)
day-date dials i bought 10 years ago from dealers cost only $100-$150. these go for US$350-$550 today from the same dealers.
servicing costs for a day-date used to cost $450-$550. it now costs $1,000.
the prices for sport rolex parts and servicing are equally if not more ridiculous.
for my "modern" collectibles, it is easier to obtain parts and hoard them. i can bring these parts to any good watchmaker and they can service it properly.
for vintage pieces, this is becoming difficult and increasingly expensive.
the collection "worth" of a rolex is also decreasing in my eyes - i will do better using the same amount of money buying PP/AP/VC.
i am not bashing rolex because many other companies are doing the same - increasing their prices but i do not necessarily see the corresponding increase in useful innovation (many of the touted paraXXXXX are due to vertical integration and used for marketing - they makes no difference between the old outsourced parts for 99% of the buyers).
rolex is controlled by an entity registered as a foundation which requires them to pay no tax. they are doing it for profit. buying a rolex is not supporting a charity. what they do by way of charitable acts nobody knows. what they do by way of marketing everybody sees (and covets) and IMO, being the giant marketing machine that they are, rolex would probably reveal more about charitable causes it supports if it does so.
(supporting watch makers' courses is not a charitable cause IMO but again for commercial gain because they need watch makers)
since everybody is now capable of producing water proof watch cases, i no longer see a need (as a collector/hobbyist) to marvel in the drug that is "rolex" or the oyster - there are many other established brands out there which produce a good product at reasonable prices (Girard-Perregaux and JLC comes to mind).
will i be throwing out my rolex collection? no. but i will be cutting down the pieces i have. will i say that rolex makes lousy watches? no. they make good watches but i think they are over-valued. do i still have love for rolex? yes. but it's definitely been reduced because of their restructuring and policies of recent times.
in fact, my current plan is to sell some extra pieces in my collection so that i can buy a WG/PT day-date (36mm 11xxxx) - but that will probably be the last rolex watch i buy.
but if all the above-mentioned policies worsens or comes true, it is very likely that i will swear off rolex entirely - but make no mistake, for every person that does this, there will be more that will become intoxicated by the rolex poison - the rolex marketing machine is 2nd to none! a collector will always have a rolex (or two, or more) pass through their hands.
so will this post be one that will end up with and older and (hopefully) wiser me saying "hey, i started out with rolex, went on to other brands because rolex is awful, but i have now come full circle and ended up with a rolex again because i'm wrong and rolex is still the best" - i strongly doubt so (bearing in mind that hindsight is always 20/20) because i am still keeping most of my rolex collection and because of the above.
...between a $9k (used) rolex maxi-sub or an $9k (used) JLC 300m diver, i recently picked up the JLC. no regrets because the romance i have with rolex is probably over.
the married men out there; you know what i mean! i will continue to think about the good times of the rolex from the past... but the future of my relationship with this brand will be one that is realistic and probably painful.
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