Guide : Comparison between Real & Fake Rolex ( good read page 15 &16)

[lukevans]

wouldn't a pawn shop practise due diligence when authenticating a watch?

no reputable pawnshop will sell a fake watch as it is shop reputation at stake. as such, most if not all reputable pawnshop will verify its watches are authentic before selling.

actually pawnshop also not foolproof... i don't trust them... lol

[triton]

taxico,

can you kindly pm me your contact details so that i can present to you a leather nato strap for your continuous contribution to this forum.

[triton]

wouldn't a pawn shop practise due diligence when authenticating a watch?

no reputable pawnshop will sell a fake watch as it is shop reputation at stake. as such, most if not all reputable pawnshop will verify its watches are authentic before selling.

hardly unless one bought from a pawnshop that the pawnshop are conned in the first place. internet in a nono place to purchase unless seller agree to meet up for verification.

[triton]

even for a seasoned trader, the person may not be able to tell.

let me share an instance where i was at a preown watch shop, another dealer brought in some watches for this preown watch to service. when one of the watch case back was open and upon inspection, it was communicated to the dealer who brought in the watch that is fake. immediately a phone call was made back to inform about the fake watch.

there you go. sometimes a seasoned trader may even miss something. that is why i always advise buyers who buy preown pieces to get them authenticated at their respective brand service centre. if this cannot be done, look for a seasoned trained watch technician whom you trust.

All this are very worrying. That some of the less experience bro may end up with a replicate not thinking it was real and thought he got the world best deal.

[kel12]

Very nice read! Moderators make this exception, photos will be educational!

[minimerc]

unfortunately, fakers have "perfected/corrected" the long E, shape of guards on 1680 etc. I have seen recently a fake case without all these early fake features and i was almost conned. The barely tell tale signs are the spacing between engravings and that seller had offered another fake piece which was less well made..

1680/551x

this is an extremely muddy and murky area. there are case sets out there that are very very well made. there are non-rolex date wheels made from steel. there are custom sub dials made from old rolex dials. there's a whole cottage industry, including some asian-based people modifying/making parts on demand.

because of the relatively high value some of these watches command, you can find very well made fakes that are very difficult to distinguish from the real thing without taking the thing apart and scrutinizing them carefully.

and because i have seen complete/partial fakes using a few genuine rolex parts that come complete with fake service paperwork and fake original warranty paper... i am at a slight loss on what advice to give. but here's a shot...

a quick way: most slow beat ETAs are 21.6k bph. 15xx rolex is 18k or 19.8k bph. i am sure the eta can be modified to run a little slower.

it is also cheap to find a vintage datejust and stick the movement into a fake vintage sub case set. watch out for the engravings (long/short Es). there are fake dials that correspond exactly with all known rolex dials.

check the date wheel. each and every date should look clear, well defined, and not left (your left) justified.

the case back is often a cheap fake. check the markings inside corresponds with known parts on the internet. an old case back will come with a tiny bit if pitting and wear. check the edges of the case back as well as the lip that is near the gasket with a loupe. look for wear.

use your loop and check in between the lugs for real wear, especially at the (inner) corners. if it's like NOS, please be careful. check for drilling at the insides of the lug holes with a loupe. most fake cases have been re-drilled to accept thick rolex spring bars. checking in between the lugs helps because most people don't wear out that area. real wear is easily identified with experience.

as of my posting, there is an entire red sub that has been cobbled together with all genuine parts. it is for sale at under US$7k. my belief is that RSC will accept this watch for service without too much trouble. it is also going to be easy to print fake paperwork for it. is will also be easy to buy it and sell it on for a few thousand dollars more... such watches do not come up all the time as they are expensive and difficult to build, but i hope it doesn't end up in your hands.

this is part of the reason why i no longer buy vintage rolex.

[minimerc]

thanks for sharing taxico! Nic article!!

the gold bezel found on the 4 digit reference such as the 180x/160x gold bezel do not have 2 micro hall marks. only the bezel on QS dd/DJ have hall marks.

the only way to differentiate real against AM for 4 digit ref gold bezel is to measure the internal/external and height of the bezels. Real bezels are often very marginally heavier due to thicker height.

real gold bezels are usually marked with a rolex logo on the inside. you'll have to take them off to check. there will usually be some pitting on the mid case below the bezel (including some early batches of 904L steel cases).

[Ed.YEO]

seen some fakes while on holiday, the quality is still not there and its a work in progress. No doubt, the stamping is acceptable but nothing like a rolex should be

You have not seen those that are 95% or more lookalike ones yet... If you're referring to those sold openly in HK, Thailand, or Malaysia ones... you're just seeing a tip of the iceberg nia... And these sold openly ones are too easy to identify as fakes, sibeh cheap as well.
Those that very well made ones are priced roughly about 750 and above... With that price? I rather go homage...

[jadsen_phang]

All this are very worrying. That some of the less experience bro may end up with a replicate not thinking it was real and thought he got the world best deal.

hardly unless one bought from a pawnshop that the pawnshop are conned in the first place. internet in a nono place to purchase unless seller agree to meet up for verification.

[Shawnsp]

All this are very worrying. That some of the less experience bro may end up with a replicate not thinking it was real and thought he got the world best deal.

[lukevans]

seen some fakes while on holiday, the quality is still not there and its a work in progress. No doubt, the stamping is acceptable but nothing like a rolex should be

[Jean Ramon]

Impressive, how can they do all this for that Money, you bought it from Mr X and he bought it from another and pherhaps this person bought it also elsewhere.

[taxico]

the watch passed pressure test at my local scuba shop... i tested to 150M (15 ATM) in dry chamber and 10ATM in wet chamber - no problem.

i did not modify or change anything to the watch.

the watch came with QC timing certificate after being adjusted by the maker.

average of +8s/day on my watchmaker's vibrograph. he was impressed by the watch also.

due to the extensive modifications and documentation by many people have done to this watch, i see no reason to not believe that all genuine parts can be used on this watch (crown, tube, bezel assembly, crystal, etc).

as such, i believe it might just pass a 300m pressure test A-O-K if genuine gaskets were properly cleaned and installed.

[Jean Ramon]

Haha what happens if you hold it under Water or under 40 Degrees Water, will the Movement melt down together? Think it`s a nice thing to try

[taxico]

hybrid movement (and clone movement):

this warrants a different discussion. until 2014, i have always been under the impression that rolex parts do not fit into an eta movement. thus i used to tell people a quick tip to distinguish an ETA from a modern rolex movement is to adjust the time. clockwise = time goes forward on a rolex. the opposite for ETA. (30xx movements work the same way as ETA does)

check the date flick. if the crown height is correct (2824), then the date will flick over instantly on a real rolex movement (15xx and later models).

trust the chinese to figure out what works and what doesn't. you can apparently now stick rolex wheels into an ETA to make the time go forward when turning the crown clockwise.

in general, an ETA would have an etachron-type adjuster. more advanced versions may feature a triovis adjuster. but it is unlikely you will see a studded balance wheel (microstella screws) on an ETA movement.

--

the chinese have also been building a clone 3135 movement. there are at least 2 different versions on the market, possibly 3.

in general, pay attention to the balance bridge. there should be only one area sticking out on a genuine rolex movement. on the clones there are usually two. this is the limitation of the base calibre of these clones.

the clones allow a user to use a genuine rolex dial, hands, date wheel and some critical wheels (reversers, etc).

i have not had sufficient experience with these movements because they are, in my opinion, generally rudimentary and easily identified. but they CAN look very similar to a genuine 3135 movement for the uninitiated.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE BALANCE BRIDGE!

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the future:

the maker of the fake watch i bought sent me photos of his latest 16610LV insert and 16610LV dial 2 weeks ago. he also published it on his own website.

the spacing error i mentioned earlier has been rectified. the dial looks really very very good.

the color of the insert, if the way he has described it, also looks fantastically close to some variations of the genuine part.

i believe the dial maker will eventually make a batch of these dials, when it is "perfected" by him, with the correct 3135 feet position.

because i use non-rolex crystals on some of my watches, i am unsure if this is a good or bad thing. on one hand, these dials will cost a fortune if sold by rolex. on the other hand, the quality is really really good... and it is cheap.

will i eventually be buying a perfect but "fake" 16610LV insert? (i use non-rolex purple and white inserts on my own subs/gmt2s).

i doubt i will get a fake dial, but i will probably get a fake insert. a real LV insert is US$450 from RSC... thanks but no thanks.

as technology advances, and the prices of rolex watches increase with time, you can be sure more and more people will be trying to "make a buck."

collectors of vintage watches cannot stop educating themselves unless they do not mind being ripped off from time to time.

if you know what you are buying, you will be less likely to get ripped off. i have experienced watch dealers that have sold me some fake rolex parts by accident before. because they have a good rep doesn't mean they won't make a mistake.

as always, caveat emptor!