Guide : Comparison between Real & Fake Rolex ( good read page 15 &16)

[Ian Limm]

another common problem the screws in the links become loose and come out, causing the whole watch to drop and the end...

then there are the AAA fakes, those costs $450 to $500, they last for a few years and the costs of changing the movement is about $200.

[Kobelala]

sorry, but why would anyone want to buy a fake and wear it as if he owns like the real thing ??

[taxico]

i just left a meeting of local watch collectors... and i have some news to share...

a friend took out a vintage white sub head and told me to check it out (the case back was not tightened)...

the watch felt right, and everything looked good from the outside, so i inspected the insides... a little dry looking but it's a real rolex movement.

when i told my friend it's an average looking vintage sub, he laughed and told me to carefully inspect the stamping inside and outside the watch... and that's when it hit me - this is a super rep.

while i have heard and seen pictures of super replica rolexes, today was the first time i've seen and felt one. this is a very good rep. on the wrist, you CANNOT tell the difference except that the case looks new...

there are rolex replica cases being made somewhere out there that accepts (almost) ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX PARTS.

this means, other than the mid case and case back, EVERYTHING ELSE can be fitted with real parts.

fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.

what scammers are doing are now is to:

1. buy this case (it's being sold as an empty case) and retain only mid case and case back

2. bang up the watch case to make it look old by polishing it, scratching it and throwing it around

3. buy a cheap slow-set datejust and obtain 1570 movement (sell everything else as parts to recover some $)

4. buy a clark tube + clark crystal (only if necessary)

5. buy sub parts (some are aftermarket, some are genuine but used): bezel, bezel insert, crown (must use real), date wheel, dial (probably have to use real), hand set, bracelet (if fake, then with real clasp).

6. assemble everything, trade it in/sell it off.

the more unscrupulous ones will send it for a redial (white to red, or to repair a poor quality dial) so as to fetch a higher price.

it only costs about US$1,500-$2,000 to assemble a watch that one can get rid off for a minimum of $3,000-$4,000... buyer beware!

the super rep rolex 1680 has been slowly but surely surfacing in the USA, especially in recent months, and it's a matter of time before it starts to become more common.

such super reps have been reported by a few prominent VRF members as being found in some watch shops that took them in during trade in...

the only way to tell is to inspect VERY VERY carefullly the stamping between the lugs and check the case back for printing quality (very very very easy to miss/difficult to tell without experience).

also check the oyster link stamping carefully as a real clasp can be easily riveted back to a fake bracelet.. most people only check the clasp and assume if it's real, the entire bracelet is real...

as the saying goes... if it's too good to be true...

[louie]

i just left a meeting of local watch collectors... and i have some news to share...

a friend took out a vintage white sub head and told me to check it out (the case back was not tightened)...

the watch felt right, and everything looked good from the outside, so i inspected the insides... a little dry looking but it's a real rolex movement.

when i told my friend it's an average looking vintage sub, he laughed and told me to carefully inspect the stamping inside and outside the watch... and that's when it hit me - this is a super rep.

while i have heard and seen pictures of super replica rolexes, today was the first time i've seen and felt one. this is a very good rep. on the wrist, you CANNOT tell the difference except that the case looks new...

there are rolex replica cases being made somewhere out there that accepts (almost) ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX PARTS.

this means, other than the mid case and case back, EVERYTHING ELSE can be fitted with real parts.

fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.

what scammers are doing are now is to:

1. buy this case (it's being sold as an empty case) and retain only mid case and case back

2. bang up the watch case to make it look old by polishing it, scratching it and throwing it around

3. buy a cheap slow-set datejust and obtain 1570 movement (sell everything else as parts to recover some $)

4. buy a clark tube + clark crystal (only if necessary)

5. buy sub parts (some are aftermarket, some are genuine but used): bezel, bezel insert, crown (must use real), date wheel, dial (probably have to use real), hand set, bracelet (if fake, then with real clasp).

6. assemble everything, trade it in/sell it off.

the more unscrupulous ones will send it for a redial (white to red, or to repair a poor quality dial) so as to fetch a higher price.

it only costs about US$1,500-$2,000 to assemble a watch that one can get rid off for a minimum of $3,000-$4,000... buyer beware!

the super rep rolex 1680 has been slowly but surely surfacing in the USA, especially in recent months, and it's a matter of time before it starts to become more common.

such super reps have been reported by a few prominent VRF members as being found in some watch shops that took them in during trade in...

the only way to tell is to inspect VERY VERY carefullly the stamping between the lugs and check the case back for printing quality (very very very easy to miss/difficult to tell without experience).

also check the oyster link stamping carefully as a real clasp can be easily riveted back to a fake bracelet.. most people only check the clasp and assume if it's real, the entire bracelet is real...

as the saying goes... if it's too good to be true...

taxico,thank you for the heads up! this has been happening yrs ago...if you have been lurking at the rep forums i guess you will not be surprised. Some parts on this rep are gen parts crown movt etc...

A note to the vintage buyers, if you are buying an older model be a Rolex or a Pam go deal with seller at the respective SC. Cos the SC staff will let you know if the part is original and if newer part has been installed. ie tritium model, hands been swapped for luminova or "aftermarket". (this is the worst scenario if it's "aftermarket")

[taxico]

taxico,thank you for the heads up! this has been happening yrs ago...if you have been lurking at the rep forums i guess you will not be surprised.

i have come across some fakes in private discussions on VRF but they are usually easy to tell at first glance... so i guess i was quite surprised at the quality of the fake... and have assumed a fake sub would have an ETA movement within.

it seems that the reality of today's pre-owned rolex market has risen to the point where it is worth someone's time and effort to cobble such a rep together.

as the prices are very unlikely to fall, the likelihood of encountering such fakes can only get higher and higher... there is no lathing or technical requirements to put such a watch together - with the right dial and hands, one can order the tools and parts to make such a rep.

the fact that by the time an unwitting owner finds out he has a super rep, it would be too late... and how many of us (if we were in such a position) would knowingly sell off only the genuine parts and throw away the fake case?

the owner would likely sell it the best he can, in its entirety to reclaim all of his money back... and then the cycle goes on...

louie is right... buyer of vintage watches have to be extra vigilant! the $75 spent at our local RSC is the best investment a vintage watch collector/buyer can make.

[sportee]

will rcs tells us which parts of the watch is fake or has been changed?

[louie]

i have come across some fakes in private discussions on VRF but they are usually easy to tell at first glance... so i guess i was quite surprised at the quality of the fake... and have assumed a fake sub would have an ETA movement within.

it seems that the reality of today's pre-owned rolex market has risen to the point where it is worth someone's time and effort to cobble such a rep together.

as the prices are very unlikely to fall, the likelihood of encountering such fakes can only get higher and higher... there is no lathing or technical requirements to put such a watch together - with the right dial and hands, one can order the tools and parts to make such a rep.

the fact that by the time an unwitting owner finds out he has a super rep, it would be too late... and how many of us (if we were in such a position) would knowingly sell off only the genuine parts and throw away the fake case?

the owner would likely sell it the best he can, in its entirety to reclaim all of his money back... and then the cycle goes on...

louie is right... buyer of vintage watches have to be extra vigilant! the $75 spent at our local RSC is the best investment a vintage watch collector/buyer can make.

Good rep or some call AAA top grade rep is near impossible to tell by just looking at it. To know whether its a rep or a gen,RSC is the only way to go. To have a piece of mind and 100% assurance 75 bucks is all you have to pay...

Nowadays gen parts are so easily obtainable via VRF,fleebay,and some watch shops. So it just take time for one to get the parts and put them together. Usually this are like 40% gen,and 60% rep...this 40% gen parts would have easily cost thousands of dollars and after put together yesh still a rep! Cos if rsc chk they will NOT wanna further touch it if they spotted a part not genuine. They will return the watch back to you and inform you its not using genuine part watch has been tempered with "aftermarket" parts.

It will not make sense if one has to source 80% gen parts to make up the watch,too time consuming and too much $$ to spend on a rep. May as well buy gen...

[louie]

will rcs tells us which parts of the watch is fake or has been changed?

yesh they will immediately return the watch to you and inform you watch has "aftermarket" part installed and they will not service it.

[Bergeon]

using a 10 or 14 x loupe to examine for flaws is the best way to go. however, you need sufficient experience looking and working with these watches to be able to differentiate them correctly. best is to compare the original??? to the fake. the key to authentication is to be observant and -

if you have doubt, consider it fake.

bringing it into authorised service center does not solve all the problem as it can be authenticated today as 100% original by estimator A today but when another estimator B looks at the exact same watch the next year, it becomes a fake. happens quite frequently with vintage models or between service center located in different country. remember, all estimation are estimates and carried out by humans.

[exxondus]

...
fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.
...

This part I don agree. Many models in rolex family have already been repped to be able to take the gen parts

Other brands such as PAM, Breitling, Omega, etc are also encountering this problem.

Hene, don save money when buying preown or from grey dealers. Get it authenticated!!

[taxico]

This part I don agree. Many models in rolex family have already been repped to be able to take the gen parts

the general conclusion was that for a few reasons 1680s are more poopularly replicated (and thus more limited to this model at the moment):

1. 1570 movements are easy to come by due to the sheer number of 1601 datejusts available in the wild.

2. good aftermarket acrylic crystals (eg, clark) are cheaper than sapphire crystals and indistinguishable from orig rolex tropic crystals.

3. there are a lot of 1680 subs made and it makes money sense to redial a 1680 dial (either from damage or to be turned into a red sub) than say a 5513.

4. subs are always easier to sell than any other models, especially a well priced vintage sub...

1680s are going for US$3.5k onwards. if it costs me under US$2k to make one, i can easily make $1k-$1.5k profit off each super rep i assemble...

to make a super rep of other collectible models of vintage rolex watches require a cost that is (currently) not viable, and gen parts are difficult to come by for most (eg, super rep tudor MCs are available but very expensive).

[exxondus]

the general conclusion was that for a few reasons 1680s are more poopularly replicated (and thus more limited to this model at the moment):

1. 1570 movements are easy to come by due to the sheer number of 1601 datejusts available in the wild.

2. good aftermarket acrylic crystals (eg, clark) are cheaper than sapphire crystals and indistinguishable from orig rolex tropic crystals.

3. there are a lot of 1680 subs made and it makes money sense to redial a 1680 dial (either from damage or to be turned into a red sub) than say a 5513.

4. subs are always easier to sell than any other models, especially a well priced vintage sub...

1680s are going for US$3.5k onwards. if it costs me under US$2k to make one, i can easily make $1k-$1.5k profit off each super rep i assemble...

to make a super rep of other collectible models of vintage rolex watches require a cost that is (currently) not viable, and gen parts are difficult to come by for most (eg, super rep tudor MCs are available but very expensive).

In terms of economics, I agree with what you say on making a super rep of 1680 and selling it as a gen vs fully repping other models

What i did not agree was your this statement:

"there are rolex replica cases being made somewhere out there that accepts (almost) ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX PARTS.

this means, other than the mid case and case back, EVERYTHING ELSE can be fitted with real parts.

fortunately this is limited to the rolex 1680 right now, and i recommend everybody be on alert.
"

Probbaly I got your message in the wrong light. Reading the above with the word 'fortunately', you seem to be saying that only 1680 super reps can take real parts at the moment. This is def not true.

Anyway, from your later post on correcting me, I reckon that you are trying to say that only 1680s are being 'fully' repped at the moment and not the others despite other rep models already being able to take gen parts.

Correct me if my later understanding is incorrect.

Just a sidetrack, Modern models such as 16610 may cost you anywhere from SGD3-4k in total to make a fully rep with gen parts and movement (minus the 904L steel) and still being able to sell at 5k -> I would jump at a 5k Sub if it can be authenticated of cos .) Unethical earnings of 1-2k is still substantial to such people. just that as higlighted by you, the gen movement is much harder to come by.

cheers!

[sportee]

yesh they will immediately return the watch to you and inform you watch has "aftermarket" part installed and they will not service it.

Thanks for the advice..

[taxico]

Probbaly I got your message in the wrong light. Reading the above with the word 'fortunately'...

Unethical earnings of 1-2k is still substantial to such people.

i was trying to (but did not) say... "fortunately for us buyers of genuine watches, these super reps are mostly limited to the 1680 right now... with few other super reps that are as rampant..."

because if there are many many different super reps, it would be a tougher market for us collectors/buyers... thus "fortunate" in sense... : ) plus at the end of the day there WILL be people who will go for a good deal without authenticating the watch, especially less wary/experienced buyers.

criminals have done much worse for less money... !

just that as higlighted by you, the gen movement is much harder to come by.

the gen 3135 is not difficult to come by and readily available. however the 16610 dial (and all modern dials) are difficult to come by in large quantities as it is very tightly controlled.

there are many collectors and dealers hoarding tons of old dials (i've seen people with 100s and 100s of sub/sd dials)... plus older watch makers that are now steadily retiring will have a sizeable collection of vintage dials kept from before rolex geneva got strict.

as i understand it, these days an approved independent watchmaker with a rolex parts account can get any part of the watch except the dial/hands.

[exxondus]

the gen 3135 is not difficult to come by and readily available. however the 16610 dial (and all modern dials) are difficult to come by in large quantities as it is very tightly controlled.

there are many collectors and dealers hoarding tons of old dials (i've seen people with 100s and 100s of sub/sd dials)... plus older watch makers that are now steadily retiring will have a sizeable collection of vintage dials kept from before rolex geneva got strict.

as i understand it, these days an approved independent watchmaker with a rolex parts account can get any part of the watch except the dial/hands.

Thanks for the info!