buying rolex without certs.

[Kljm]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I am really new to this **** and I was wondering that the authentication cert is issued by rolex or the shop that individuals get it from?

[Mezz72]

Same here I also wldnt buy without cert.

[quacker]

agreed, so back to TS point - 'is there are any disadvantage of buying prenowned watches w/o certs?'
the cert is more to 'complete' the collection
i will not buy a watch without cert not because of authenticity issue, but because i prefer to collect a watch in 'full-set'
the cert, at best, remotely proof the authenticity of the case - it doesnt proof authenticity of rest of the parts such as movement, bracelet, dial, hands, crystal, crown, etc

Agreed. Likewise, I will not buy a watch without cert.

[quacker]

take notice you are now referring to the case and the movement - these each have separate serial numbers
verifying the case number doesnt mean your movement is verified
the movement number is not printed on the certificate - only rolex database can check the matching case number to the movement number (all these are input from the rolex factory)

as for the movement, even if an old genuine 3135 is replaced for the new one, do you think each and every part in this old movement is 100% rolex?
(btw changing the new movement with an old movement is itself a fraud case)

there are over 200 parts in a rolex movement - how to check? i doubt rolex service center dismantle and check every single part in the movement - so will you be a happy buyer if the seller swapped the new movement with an old movement? ask yourself do you still think the watch is worth buying, even it is perceived as being 'genuine'?

Exactly! You just reaffirmed the point I am trying to make, that is, even with authentication you cannot be certain if a Seller wants to cheat you. I just said a cert serves as a reference guide like in the 16610LV case.

[quacker]

having a cert doesnt mean the watch is genuine
likewise having an authentication receipt from rolex center also doesnt mean watch is genuine
why?
the seller could change some parts in the movement after the authentication and sell to you with the original box and cert and authentication receipt

unless if you collect the watch directly from rolex center immediately upon authentication

No one said having the cert proves that the watch is genuine. Like the example I have just given, a cert would give the buyer more confidence in ensuring the correct model is bought and also one will be able to compare the serial number of the watch engraved on the rehaut with that on the cert. It gives more confidence so to speak.

To go to the extreme, if a watch is sent for authentication and the watch movement, say calibre 3135 is replace with an old 3135 calibre or with some parts changed but replace with older parts, does that make the watch less genuine?

[quacker]

with my limited knowledge, 16610LV has maxi dial. 16610 does not have maxi dial. so to have 16610 normal dial with green insert means something is wrong somewhere

Dear Administrator,

Thanks for pointing that out. You see, I did not know that. So, for newbies like me, a cert will be even more important because some of us (especially people like me) are still learning and know little.

[pegasi]

With my limited knowledge, not all certs of 16610LV distinguish this model from the regular sub. Some will have 16610LV designated, others 16610V and some simply 16610 (normally early models - 2005). However the anniversray ref no. can be found on the green plastic hang tag.

Just something I learn from another forum so don't ask me for proof or further details

[triton]

with my limited knowledge, 16610LV has maxi dial. 16610 does not have maxi dial. so to have 16610 normal dial with green insert means something is wrong somewhere

I am not sure whether the cert can be faked. My guess would be that maybe it can though I have not seen a fake cert. Other bros who have experience in this regard, please advise.

My take on the cert is that, to me at least, it is important. I give you an example.

Say a person is selling the 16610LV. Without papers to proof that the watch is indeed a 16610LV, one can actually change the metal insert on the bezel of a 16610LN from black to green (which is commonly available) and pass it off as a 16610LV.

At least, with proper papers (and provided those are not fake papers), one can be more confident of the model of the watch bought. One can also compare the serial number engraved on the rehaut with the cert (provided it is not a fake).

[quacker]

I am not sure whether the cert can be faked. My guess would be that maybe it can though I have not seen a fake cert. Other bros who have experience in this regard, please advise.

My take on the cert is that, to me at least, it is important. I give you an example.

Say a person is selling the 16610LV. Without papers to proof that the watch is indeed a 16610LV, one can actually change the metal insert on the bezel of a 16610LN from black to green (which is commonly available) and pass it off as a 16610LV.

At least, with proper papers (and provided those are not fake papers), one can be more confident of the model of the watch bought. One can also compare the serial number engraved on the rehaut with the cert (provided it is not a fake).

[satch]

Box/Cert is a plus point ...

To me what is most important is that the watch must be 100% genuine !!!

Agree! 100% genuine - that goes without saying :P

[satch]

Come to think of it, can't fake cert meh? Got cert means real? Pls loh...
Got cert, price is higher tats for sure, but tat doesn't prove anything.

Of course it doesn't prove anything. A replica can be made of anything. Having box and papers give buyers more assurance and comfort when considering a certain piece. Maybe it's just a perception, but don't underestimate this an important factor in the overall purchase decision.

Also, if u are selling a common rolex current sports model eg sub c hulk daytona etc where there are easily 5 or 6 others selling, the lack of box and papers put seller at a huge disadvantage. Of cos pricing will come into the picture, but this puts u under a lot of pricing pressure. Buy low sell low but we dont how low is low...

[satch]

Just wondering how much difference does it make if the cert is named or unnamed?

Don't think much difference. Guess the watch condition, warranty period is more important.

[Mezz72]

Come to think of it, can't fake cert meh? Got cert means real? Pls loh...
Got cert, price is higher tats for sure, but tat doesn't prove anything.

[quacker]

Just wondering how much difference does it make if the cert is named or unnamed?

[satch]

If budget is not a constraint get the one with cert for completeness. It is also easier to sell in future. My two cents worth.

yup, really takes the pain away from reselling in future... sometimes selling with complete set is already exasperating enough.... without box & papers even with an attractive price is tough. with complete set, sometimes buyer may not want to choose to authenticate, but without box & papers, it is much more likely that buyer wants to authenticate.