Marina Militare watches in the forum

[BasT]

however, there is a clear difference between a fake and a hommage.......

Correct, but then the Marina Militares offered here do not qualify as homage because they duplicate a watch that is still in production.

so as to whether a particular watch infringes on any copyright/trademark/patent, it is not for us to judge..... it is for the IP owner to take action.... or if there is any criminal activity, then the law enforcement agencies will know what to do.....

As a brand forum, you should stay away of allowing the sales fake watches. What you're saying here is that it is okay to sell fakes until the trademark/patent owner or the law tells you otherwise.

[BasT]

i am not a dealer and have both Panerai and hommage watches...as i have stated clearly..each to his own ...if u aint comfortable wearing or buying a hommage just get panerai...simple...as for the dare part u r always welcome to meet up in person and repeat the same words as you had stated in your thread...dun be a cyber warrior...mr tough guy..haha....

I would not be comfortable wearing a real Panerai for that matter As for the rest of your statement; it was indeed a thread, not a threat, so no need to get personal.

[ohlins]

Correct, but then the Marina Militares offered here do not qualify as homage because they duplicate a watch that is still in production.

As a brand forum, you should stay away of allowing the sales fake watches. What you're saying here is that it is okay to sell fakes until the trademark/patent owner or the law tells you otherwise.

you talk as if you are the IP owner.....

there is nothing wrong with duplication per se......... there is obvious potential problems with patent/TM infringement though. i.e. the owner has a legal recourse to sue .....

sometimes they sue ..... sometimes they dun bother to sue........

there is no fake for sale here...... u are making up the fakes with your own wishful thinking....

[Reborn]

I think BasT has some valid views

you talk as if you are the IP owner.....

there is nothing wrong with duplication per se......... there is obvious potential problems with patent/TM infringement though. i.e. the owner has a legal recourse to sue .....

sometimes they sue ..... sometimes they dun bother to sue........

there is no fake for sale here...... u are making up the fakes with your own wishful thinking....

Don't think it's about the issue of leaving it to the IP owners to decide to sue or not to sue. I think the issue in question here is your site's reputation/profile.

I think if SG-ROC wants to grow itself into a forum of the traffic of say, paneristi.com or via paneristi, and a resource that rolex owners rely heavily upon, you may wish to consider setting some clear guidelines/rules on the hommage watches.

I personally don't think the Marina Militaires should be allowed for sale here. Everyone has the freedom to wear whatever watches they like, but to allow such watches to populate your site is another matter.

I say this without any malice but with good intentions for your site. Just my 2 cents.

[bryangrant]

I'm surprised that this topic has raked up so much comments...disagreements. Sigh.. Frankly speaking, IMO, there's nothing wrong with Marina Militare watches. Watchuseek, a reputable worldwide watch enthusiast forum is also against selling of replicas as per stated in their rules and regulations but then, alot of MM /homage sellers are well received in their garage sales forums.

It's a free market and freedom of buying and selling as long as you don't do anything illegal. (I consider selling replicas as illegal)

Let buyers have the freedom to choose the range of watches they can afford. From 100+ to 100 000+ price range of watches. I personally bought 1 MM from a fellow seller here. Even our moderator once sold MM to many of the members here.

W/O this website, i dont think many local buyers here can have a chance to view and buy such watches. It's just a Watch, a cheaper alternative. Why discriminate? just because it is not as prestigeous as Rolex, Panerais? Its not like they are selling reps now. A NO-NO of course.

I wouldn't agree that such watches are degrading any image or whatsoever. It's a choice for the buyers to decide how they want to part their money. if you like it.. buy it, dislike it.. then simply ignore. What's so degrading about it?

The moderators can perhaps set up different sales thread for different types of watches... maybe then the so called "higher class" people can "avoid" looking at the so called "degrading" sales threads.

[Reborn]

Well, unfortunately, you are missing the plot here.

We are not talking watch social stratification here and whether certain watches are "degrading". Some of the replicas or so-called homage brands have been taken to court by Panerai for infringing on IP. That's the crux of the issue.

[bryangrant]

Theres only RXW being ordered to stop MM20. If Panerai wants to take the MM watchmakers to court, then SG-ROC shall follow through and blacklist this brand of homages. There's no need to PRE anticipate whether MM are suitable for sale at this point of time. Its a free market still, my point is why restrict unnecessarily ?

[Reborn]

....that depends on whether the ultimate objective is to create a watch bazaar (like tekka market? where you can sell anything ) or a rolex owners' forum.

That's "the plot" I was alluding to.

[deadbench]

i believe end of the day.. we r threadin a very fine line..distinguishing homages and fakes...

homage
Noun
a public show of respect or honour towards someone or something: the master's jazzy-classical homage to Gershwin [Latin homo man]

fake
Verb
[faking, faked]
1. to cause something not genuine to appear real or more valuable by fraud
2. to pretend to have (an illness, emotion, etc.)
Noun
an object, person, or act that is not genuine

both taken from free online dictionary...

i must clarify that i do not own any homage or fake panerai/rolex..
i do own a genuine rolex submariner..

for fakes or homages to appear.. the watch must be really 'wanted'.. look at the bright side...

well..one might feel fakes and homages r alike since both r cashing on the original design..

but sometimes homages r good alternatives..they r gd in quality too..
for tat, i can't say the same abt fakes....

btw, does early panerai look exactly like some MM?

*just wanna touch abit on look-alikes.. i noticed the likes of orient/seiko/tissot/sadoz/many many others... look just like a rolex submariner...i'm sure many sub owners agree with me...

so do you consider that as fake or homage or original?

[wind128]

WatchUSeek also launched their own Panerai style Alenzo Strados watch.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=64550.

With the Internet and availability of parts, these days there are many private label brands designing their own watches, and it is hard to distinguish an "original" idea.

Take the pilot watch for example ... copied by so many companies when originally, there were only five companies doing them.

There are "homages" and are there are "homages to homages", quite endless cycle. I guess it boils down to whether the owner of the watch is happy with his purchase and what he/she is getting in return. Some people buying the MM really do not mind the "Chinese/Asian/Jap" movements...

[khnglh]

wow...

wow... sorry if my initial post cause so much grief between the members but i sincerely believe homages are here to stay and i personally have nothing against them but i honestly don't want this forum garage part to go down the route of yahoo auction singapore where 80% of the watches are homages, fakes from dealers in Malaysia, China, Hong Kong. I don't want to see this forum become an avenue for dealers of such ware to flog them...

[ohlins]

sorry... just to reiterate..... we do not condone fakes...... period.

[feilong108]

i am the mods in here will do their upmost to ensure that the sales threads in here wun turn out to be as in yahoo auctions.....cheers...

[volcane]

This I agree

my opinion.....

well firstly we are not experts in IP.......

so as to whether a particular watch infringes on any copyright/trademark/patent, it is not for us to judge..... it is for the IP owner to take action.... or if there is any criminal activity, then the law enforcement agencies will know what to do.....

of cos there are a few irrefutable points:

crown protection device is a registered TM
wire loop strap attachment is patented
black seal is a TM
and some others.....

officine panerai had taken legal action against RXW ..... and succeeded in doing so....

we can of cos impose self-consorship by banning these controversial watches to be put on sale here.... but who are we to say which part is a TM/patent infringement.........

however, there is a clear difference between a fake and a hommage.......

therefore, sale of fakes is not allowed......