Panerai Price Dropping!

[Rolex48]

The excel is my livelihood, so sorry cannot share lar.
For traders, keeping track of pricings is paramount...
Suffice to say others keep track of me & I on others...
Costings in customs, import, profit sharing fees, decision to buy, investment to flip or not, can sell or not, flippability and etc...
So we keep track of each others transacted price....happens during a cuppa...and in many cases we just sms or call each other...

Wow i do learn new thing. Wonder is there a "leader" in the dealer group?
Is this how the price of resale watch is control ?

Can throw some light ? Wonder why only Rolex, Panerai and PP hold value. Is this the reason ?

Thanks for sharing

[Fred_Tan]

trade secret

I do not know these 2 seller, I do not know if they know each other or who do they know.

Why will 2 seller "fire blank" on 115 pricing ?

Yes agree with you - do not trust anyone.

If you said that your have an Excel that keep track of pricing, maybe can share with us how it is done ? Do all watch go thru you ? Do buyer or seller update you ? Even if yes, are you there to witness it ?

A few member pointed out that in fact price have drop for their watch.
Your answer and reason - NO, other over paid ?

You said if make mistake must learn.... but ......

Really have to give u a . - never said die.

The excel is my livelihood, so sorry cannot share lar.
For traders, keeping track of pricings is paramount...
Suffice to say others keep track of me & I on others...
Costings in customs, import, profit sharing fees, decision to buy, investment to flip or not, can sell or not, flippability and etc...
So we keep track of each others transacted price....happens during a cuppa...and in many cases we just sms or call each other...

To track prices using WTS asking & WTB bid price is very misleading.
And to just take someone else word that he sold or his fren buy a watch for this price is just simply not acceptable to traders as we know ppl tend to boast that they bought at lower price and sellers tend to boast the sell high.

Not all WTS & WTB post are closed; meaning they are never sold.
Not all WTS & WTB are real; they could be spurring.

That's the grey-traders have to take care of each other & share our knowledge....I cannot remember how much Trader A sold his Alinghi recently.
I cannot remember all watch model's trade closing price.
We cannot be expert on all models & track all prices as there are hundreds of transactions in Spore every week.
So, we always call / sms / email each other to get e last transacted price.

And, we cannot share this with members of public.
If u look at PuristSPro, TZ & P.com, mart price listing by members are strictly prohibited.

Again, based on these transacted trackings, rare & popular models price for PAM didn't come down at all during this downturn, period.
With same trackings, popular & rare PAM price are beginning to go up since mid-09.
Also, with same trackings, unpopular PAM models are still sliding in transacted price.

This is what I track & what I know is the truth & not heresay & romours with unsubstantiated data like some here propagate.

[exxondus]

But with all watches going away from puny size and thin thicknesss and ultra complications, will it come a day
when small, thin and less parts or jewels will make a comeback?

actually, just my own thoughts la. I believe there will always be mkt for big watches, as well as for small watches de.

don flame me hor...

[Rolex48]

That price never changed hand, believe me.
Over here when we say pricing, we refer to done deal price...not posted price.
Some1 posted in Paneristi in Apr 2008 asking for SGD40k for a PAM127E..
Does that mean PAM127E hit 40K?

The same good fella posted again e next week asking for SGD45k PAM217H....

He then posted SGD28K for a 249I the next mth in May.......

He has no pics...someone later finds out that he's just helping an irresponsible trader who's no longer in this business here to push up e price as every time we call him, he says e watch is already onhold.

The funny thing is e watch is already onhold 60s after it was posted as we called him very e moment e 3rd watch (249) was posted.

We reported him & his IP was banned 4ever....and the trader has lost his previlage to post in Paneristi as well & lost his business as a result.

Recently we also monitoring another trader here in Spore who always say his watch is sold or taken or onhold moments after he posted....he's being investigated for spurring right now....

My point is I only note down price that really changed hands by discussing with fella traders here on weekly basis. I visit em often & talk to em all e time.
We know e price that really got executed.

So when u see a 13+k 115, do u really believe that it was sold even when the thread indicate so?
Dun just look at threads...
They can be severely misleading.
A 5980/1A was posted for SGD106,500K 1.5 years ago.
What happened?
I went w e buyer & met e seller.
The deal was done at just SGD75k.

Maybe the seller is ur fren.
But even then, how do u knoe he really received 13+k.
He could boast he got it, right? When in actual fact he only got 10k?

Take my word, if anyone paid above 10k for a new 115 a year or two ago, he did a lot of charity...or he was cheated by a grey dealer like me

I do not know these 2 seller, I do not know if they know each other or who do they know.

Why will 2 seller "fire blank" on 115 pricing ?

Yes agree with you - do not trust anyone.

If you said that your have an Excel that keep track of pricing, maybe can share with us how it is done ? Do all watch go thru you ? Do buyer or seller update you ? Even if yes, are you there to witness it ?

A few member pointed out that in fact price have drop for their watch.
Your answer and reason - NO, other over paid ?

You said if make mistake must learn.... but ......

Really have to give u a . - never said die.

[Destro22BT]

Yes, current & common models like 0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 111, 112, 113, 114, 164, 212 & 240 price dropped but not as bad as any other brands like IWC, JLC, Rolex.
I think these models registered the least dropped when compared to other brands.

22BT was asking for like 28k 2 yrs ago...
but I know it only actually changed hand at 18k even at it's peak in Jun-08 with an Indonesian buyer....
Pay anything higher and u'd overpaid.....
Anyway, based on prices that was "actually" executed, transacted and not price that was asked in all the Posts by dealers which I have been recording in my humble Excel, I don't think 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 194, 195, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 did go down. So, again I reiterate, NO, price didn't drop for these models at all if we look at real transacted price compared between lows in Mar 2009 and highs in Sep-08.

In fact, 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 194, 195, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 prices has been going up since mid-09.

Panerai is 1st brand with select models like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 to register transacted price increase along with 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219 since mid-09.

Sadly, for 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164 & 240, the price will con't to slide as 305, 312, 320 & 321 will take it's place.

I do not compare price based on FS asking.
I know I cannot use FS as it's manipulated by buyers & sellers alike.
I must not include SGD35k asking for 217....30k for 249....29k for 292J...20k for 232....35k for 195.....29k for 123....200k for 203....32k for 26BT.....400k for 21...as I know they never changed hand.

In stock prices, ur portfolio & worth is valued at closed bid & not ask.
I treat the same for watches.

And, I ignore all low collectors pricing as they may need to sell cheap due to lack of Reference.
There're collectors here & in other forums who try to bring e mart down by posting fake FS with low prices, which I ignore.
There're also sellers whom posted high prices with no watches to spurn e mart esp in 2007 & 2008.
These ppl whom seldom trade & appear suddenly as they dissapear are also ignored by me.

I only look at price that was actually sold by traders as it's what the mart is, and it's standardize; something like SGX lar....easi to compare.

So in conclusion, I think everyone will agree, apart from 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164 & 240, Panerai price has stabilized & had started to increase.

I also think, every one will agree that Panerai remain as the only brand with least depreciation for 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219.

I also think based on real transacted prices, Panerai is the only brand where select models like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 never go down at all.

And, 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 along with 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219 are starting to increase, e 1st brand to do so since mid tis yr.

LOL, woke up to a wall of text... what did I miss??? So sorry har, I PAM newbie only... miraculously picked up a PAM22BT while walking on the streets without knowing what it is. Worst part is I sold it at a damn lousy price man... my gawd... if only I've done my research would I have made a pile man...Shingz!

If u've not owned a PAM22BT before, now is the time to own one!

[Fred_Tan]

Ditto +1

i agree with you..and for the point in bold, do you mean the ladies?

But with all watches going away from puny size and thin thicknesss and ultra complications, will it come a day
when small, thin and less parts or jewels will make a comeback?

[exxondus]

Officine Panerai is a solid Italian brand from a country that has fiery passion, fashion and the best sports cars in the world! Their cuisine is popular. I don't know much about their wines but pizza and pasta is already like a staple for other cultures. Panerai watches are also unique and have an actual military history. Pams are quirky and attract admirers who share the same appeal much like the way that Alfa Romeos have a niche following. OP has models that are sexy and sporty. They are here to stay. I have even seen Pams in pawnshops and also saw people bidding for them at pawnbroker auctions. Recently, some Pams have even been appearing for sale in our local forums with no boxes and appears. It has garnered the attention from replica makers just like the rollies. Is it not often said that copying is the sincerest form of flattery? Anyway it requires a substantial foundation for any watch company to be able to put up an exhibition in a museum halfway across the globe. So I would not be so quick to dismiss Pams just yet...viva la Panerai!

i agree with you..and for the point in bold, do you mean the ladies?

[Taipan]

OP forever...

Told my friends PAM is a fashion watch... looks like I am right pricing falling due 2 no demand... kekekeke

PAM quality also cannot beat ROLEX or PTAEK... NO WAY!

Officine Panerai is a solid Italian brand from a country that has fiery passion, fashion and the best sports cars in the world! Their cuisine is popular. I don't know much about their wines but pizza and pasta is already like a staple for other cultures. Panerai watches are also unique and have an actual military history. Pams are quirky and attract admirers who share the same appeal much like the way that Alfa Romeos have a niche following. OP has models that are sexy and sporty. They are here to stay. I have even seen Pams in pawnshops and also saw people bidding for them at pawnbroker auctions. Recently, some Pams have even been appearing for sale in our local forums with no boxes and appears. It has garnered the attention from replica makers just like the rollies. Is it not often said that copying is the sincerest form of flattery? Anyway it requires a substantial foundation for any watch company to be able to put up an exhibition in a museum halfway across the globe. So I would not be so quick to dismiss Pams just yet...viva la Panerai!

[Fred_Tan]

We all need to know what we are into

1) WTS & WTB asking & bid price is not e watch value
2) Not all grey traders are good & not all are bad
3) Many times the transacted or closed deal price is way below the bid & ask price listed WTB & WTS which we dunno but with some asking around, we can know...
4) Not all members in all forums (SG-ROC included) are true members.

The 4th item is that I'm going to dwelve into today:

- These members are trolls & moles that joined long ago.
- "super lao jiaos" they are called.
- These moles & trolls even joined GTG.
- U see them in forums. They buy many watches.
- They posted pics of their watches & even their family. U knoe em as ur frens.
- They are what u em expect to be, true members...
- But they are not....
- They are ppl who works for grey-traders....
- The exist to give good recommendation & fake references for certain grey-traders....
- They are paid by discounts on select items to bring down competiting grey-traders by spreading false rumors & even ridiculing em in forums like this...
- We see this attacks today
- These super lao jiao has many login names with same IP.
- That's y VP & P.com start monitoring IP and banning members with multi-login w same IP 2 yrs ago....
- They use this multi-login when IP was not tracked in P & VP.com 2 yrs ago to spurn mart by posting fake WTB & WTS
- These days, when IP add r tracked, these ppl have nothing to do but to make fake recommendations & references or spread lies about other members or traders like me.
- Many of these lao jiaos are banned from WatchNet, P, VP, BigWatch, ConnectingWatches, TZ, WUS, Rolex Forum for molling & trolling.
- Some of them still exist as they were not caught or were recently recruited with new IP & logins.
- They act like moderators when they are not.
- Ppl whom they dun disagree on will get attacked, like me.
- When e mods dun take action on what they see as dissenting member, they even chidded e mods.
- They r more powerful than mods & forum owners
- They act like they know everything when they actually do not.
- They like to ask mod to ban ppl like me who they thought can contravene their ideas


5) And, we also see that many traders couldn't post in PuristSPro, WatchNet, P, VP, BigWatch, ConnectingWatches, TZ, WUS & Rolex Forum...are they lazy or is business very good? I dun think so....Some of em use to post many many yrs ago....they got banned for spurning, selling swapped watch, selling items that are not described & etc


In conclusion, we all know they are if you check & do a bit of homework.
So be careful of these lao jiaos who use a lot of calls to other members & even mods to take actions on others who make dissenting views.
Be careful when u a member say the other is always wrong, they are always rite like PAP.

They r ppl who will never admit they know less or know nothing..
They dun wanna share...
They are here for other vested parties...

[Fred_Tan]

If our service & price is high, so dun buy from us.
Ban us from SG-ROC.
Ban me.
Ban us all from all forums for that matter.




Who called for ban? Thought it was your goodself? Ohlins....do you want try and justify aqain?

All who are into Pams know the 'truth', like what ender and destro22bt mentioned, knows that What you (Fred) said is not true...

'Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.'

And here you are being so annoyed that others have posted mis-information.

I have yet to meet such a narcissistic person who front his arrogance under the self-proclaimation of self-devised bias knowledge and support them with showcase of high net-worth.

Now look who's jumping up & down.
I made my statements based on Excel sheet that I use to keep track of transacted price so tat I know e mart in order to flip watches.
Forgive me I get u so worked out.

What I say is the closed transacted price which I meticulously keep track of it's my livelyhood.
Not some price that some1 pluck from the sky that are based on FS ask or bid price that never got closed.

I don't ask to be agreed on.
I just want to share...

Many member will agree & disagree with me.
If I have annoyed you in anyway which I dun see how, pls accept my apologies.

[Democritus]

If our service & price is high, so dun buy from us.
Ban us from SG-ROC.
Ban me.
Ban us all from all forums for that matter.

I learn from you all.
If I made a mistake I will admit it.
I am not here to spite or put down anyone.
But I cannot sit down & hear facts that are not truth.

Ppl may tell something out of misinformation.
Forums are meant to share information.
But I don't think forum members here or in any forums want to be given false of half truths...

If I go over VP & P.com or any other forum & made a broad-brushed statement like "Panerai Price Dropping", I will get toasted with at least 100 responses in matter of hours cos it's not the truth.

BUT, I expect others to be ready to corrected if they are wrong.
Ppl who keep harping on issue that's far from reality & truth is not here for the benefits of others.
They are merely here to propagate their egos & I dun wan to be that and I dun like that when I see it happening blatantly.

Ppl who who think emselves as the police of this forum & threaten others with call for ban are the worst in any forum.
This ppl have no right whatsover to think they own the forum when they dun.

Who called for ban? Thought it was your goodself? Ohlins....do you want try and justify aqain?

All who are into Pams know the 'truth', like what ender and destro22bt mentioned, knows that What you (Fred) said is not true...

'Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.'

And here you are being so annoyed that others have posted mis-information.

I have yet to meet such a narcissistic person who front his arrogance under the self-proclaimation of self-devised bias knowledge and support them with showcase of high net-worth.

[Fred_Tan]

[QUOTE=Ender;218615]

YES, I agree.
Price are less insane now for PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K that got whacked by 305, 312 & 320 and soon 321....I agree, time to pick PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K up before SWATCH group stopped allowing ETA6497 & 7750 from being decorated by Panerai starting from 2016....
...
Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.
...
In fact Panerai is the only brand with select model like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 that never depreciate even in this downturn or in 2000 due to Dot.com bubble burst, 2001 (911), 2003 (Desert Storm 2 & SARS) since they started public sale in 1998.
...
QUOTE]

Agree that prices are now more 'reasonable' for more common pieces like a 0,5,111, 112 etc now.
Disagree that for pieces like 1a/bt, 2a/bt, 4, 9, 203 etc that prices did not drop during recent downturn.
As in any other brands, some models hold their value better than others.

Yes, I think it's time we collect some Lum 0, 5, 1, 2, 111, 112, 113, 114, 56, 61, 176, 177 & etc...I think the stock of 'modified' 6497 will surely run out in 5-6 years time...

As for for 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 36, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 194, 195, 203, 239, 267 & 292J and many others, u know I based my pricing on real transacted price and not asking in FS.
The real transacted price never moved much till Min-09 when they start to creep up again...they never gone down...

[Fred_Tan]

I have to agree with Ender.

Take my 22BT for example. In Q1 2008, I posted up some picts on P.com of my PAM22BT on a new ammo strap and in came emails offering S$X+4k for the set. I sold it off at S$X early this month. And many of the bros here saw my ad on P.com for a couple of months before it was finally sold.

And if anyone needs to compare, you can always dig out K.Chen's FS post history on p.com for models like PAM112G (just for example) and see how much prices have fallen.

DUN FLAME ME PLS

Yes, current & common models like 0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 111, 112, 113, 114, 164, 212 & 240 price dropped but not as bad as any other brands like IWC, JLC, Rolex.
I think these models registered the least dropped when compared to other brands.

22BT was asking for like 28k 2 yrs ago...
but I know it only actually changed hand at 18k even at it's peak in Jun-08 with an Indonesian buyer....
Pay anything higher and u'd overpaid.....
Anyway, based on prices that was "actually" executed, transacted and not price that was asked in all the Posts by dealers which I have been recording in my humble Excel, I don't think 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 194, 195, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 did go down. So, again I reiterate, NO, price didn't drop for these models at all if we look at real transacted price compared between lows in Mar 2009 and highs in Sep-08.

In fact, 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 194, 195, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 prices has been going up since mid-09.

Panerai is 1st brand with select models like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 to register transacted price increase along with 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219 since mid-09.

Sadly, for 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164 & 240, the price will con't to slide as 305, 312, 320 & 321 will take it's place.

I do not compare price based on FS asking.
I know I cannot use FS as it's manipulated by buyers & sellers alike.
I must not include SGD35k asking for 217....30k for 249....29k for 292J...20k for 232....35k for 195.....29k for 123....200k for 203....32k for 26BT.....400k for 21...as I know they never changed hand.

In stock prices, ur portfolio & worth is valued at closed bid & not ask.
I treat the same for watches.

And, I ignore all low collectors pricing as they may need to sell cheap due to lack of Reference.
There're collectors here & in other forums who try to bring e mart down by posting fake FS with low prices, which I ignore.
There're also sellers whom posted high prices with no watches to spurn e mart esp in 2007 & 2008.
These ppl whom seldom trade & appear suddenly as they dissapear are also ignored by me.

I only look at price that was actually sold by traders as it's what the mart is, and it's standardize; something like SGX lar....easi to compare.

So in conclusion, I think everyone will agree, apart from 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164 & 240, Panerai price has stabilized & had started to increase.

I also think, every one will agree that Panerai remain as the only brand with least depreciation for 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219.

I also think based on real transacted prices, Panerai is the only brand where select models like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 never go down at all.

And, 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 along with 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219 are starting to increase, e 1st brand to do so since mid tis yr.

[Destro22BT]

I have to agree with Ender.

Take my 22BT for example. In Q1 2008, I posted up some picts on P.com of my PAM22BT on a new ammo strap and in came emails offering S$X+4k for the set. I sold it off at S$X early this month. And many of the bros here saw my ad on P.com for a couple of months before it was finally sold.

And if anyone needs to compare, you can always dig out K.Chen's FS post history on p.com for models like PAM112G (just for example) and see how much prices have fallen.

DUN FLAME ME PLS

[Ender]

[QUOTE=Fred_Tan;218078]YES, I agree.
Price are less insane now for PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K that got whacked by 305, 312 & 320 and soon 321....I agree, time to pick PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K up before SWATCH group stopped allowing ETA6497 & 7750 from being decorated by Panerai starting from 2016....
...
Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.
...
In fact Panerai is the only brand with select model like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 that never depreciate even in this downturn or in 2000 due to Dot.com bubble burst, 2001 (911), 2003 (Desert Storm 2 & SARS) since they started public sale in 1998.
...
QUOTE]

Agree that prices are now more 'reasonable' for more common pieces like a 0,5,111, 112 etc now.
Disagree that for pieces like 1a/bt, 2a/bt, 4, 9, 203 etc that prices did not drop during recent downturn.
As in any other brands, some models hold their value better than others.