Don't understand Panerai...

[Oceanklassik]

Your charkwaytiao makes me drool..yum-yum

[Ender]

Ahh... Let me share my story. In 2004, before I became a watch collector, I've always considered the Rolex as the grail watch, like many others. Face it, it's one of the top brands in the whole world. In house movement, timeless case design, as good as instant cash strapped to the wrist, that 'woah! he wears a lolek neh!' attention u get. What more can you ask?

I knew of Panerai that time, seeing as one of my neighbours donned a PAM115 Destro. A Destro Luminor felt 'right' to me with its crown guard on the left, perhaps because it's my first encounter with panerai in the flesh, though it was only a lukewarm feel towards it. It irked me knowing that Panerai houses a cheap ass unitas mvt that costs US$75. I tot to myself, maybe geddit after I get my first Rolex. In 2005, after reviewing the Rolex thread in HWZ Forum (which ultimately gave birth to sg-roc), I took the plunge and bought my first Sub Date. I was in love and it was a dream come true. Subsequently, after getting over the initial euphoria of owning the Sub Date, I tot... maybe it's time I got myself a 'lesser' watch, which I decided to be a PAM115 destro, seeing more and more ppl on the streets with Panerai strapped to their wrist. It was a difficult hunt for the watch given my budget of S$5k, but one fine day, I received a call from my AD and he mentioned that there is a piece of PAM112H available for me should I want it. The discount was fabulous, so I tot... why not? and decided that this first Panerai 112H will be a 'fun' watch. It did feel funny at first, at a huge 44mm case...and constantly, I tot my purchase was really over the top, overpaying for a watch with such a cheap movement, but wat the hell? But the funny thing was that I started to wear the Panerai more than the Subdate. And on days when I wore the Subdate, I missed my Panerai and immediately switched to it when I reached home. Funny... I thought to myself, but each time I felt that way, I assurred myself... Rolex is still the grail for me...full stop. In 2006, I sold my subdate and went for the dweller for the cleaner look. I also bought a PAM190I which was made available to me (now that is a piece that's worth it's price IMO... it's got a 8day complication). To free up funds for the PAM190, I had to sell one, and decided that it's my PAM112. And after the initial PAM190 excitement, I experienced this thing called seller's remourse. It was bad. I missed it to bits. I wanted my 112 back badly. I regretted the sale and it was difficult to say why. It just felt wrong. Though I regretted, I told myself that if I were to get a Luminor back on my wrist... but it has to be a Destro, because that's what I've always wanted. Then as fate had it arranged for me... I chanced upon a PAM22 at one of the dealers. He didn't know what he was selling me... a prized PAM22 with 'T' dial, no longer in production. He quoted me what I tot was a good price for it, and I took it without the need to even think. And recently, I cleared all my Rolex collection for Panerai. I tot to myself if I'd feel that seller's remourse for my Dweller... and feared it would strike me the second time. But somehow along the way, the dweller became just too small for me...and after months of selling it, I never did feel any remourse.

I'm not saying that Panerai sings to every man on the street, in fact, I've seen ppl ditching Panerai for Rolex simply because it's not their cuppa tea, perhaps members of sg-roc who has gone this way could share their experience?

Many have said the big watch fad will go away since 2003/2004. Look at things now, the demand for Panerai is still through the roof (not to mention its price!), how often do you actually see a piece on display at the dealers, and for how long? And let's look at Rolex... Re-edition of Milgauss at 40mm, GMT 2 having a redesigned larger-looking case, the release of deep sea dweller at 43.5mm. Why? And what next? Explorer 2 getting a larger case? I leave it to the readers to decide, dun wish to enter into an argument in any case

But for my case, some logical reasons for the love of Panerai is the case design with the crown guard, the size, the attention it gets, the versatility of it (in terms of strap choices, u'll never get enough!) and the way it holds its value NOW. But mainly, the love for Panerai is really illogical for me...I really can't explain... I just smile everytime its on my wrist, it feels good to wind it every morning, and like how many Paneristi sum it up... Get your first Panerai and u'll know why.

eh, can summarise?
To me, the appeal of Pams is simply their looks. Their luminor case is so distinctive and eye-catching. Another plus point is their versatility offered by their simple strap changing mechanism and the various strap options out there. If you talk about increasing prices, what other brands (worth your consideration) have not gone up? I like rolex (especially the daytonas ) but at the price they are being offered, also makes me wonder if I am really getting value for money. Maybe bottomline is that this hobby, you shld not consider getting value for money.
Bubble burst? Donno ... the US economy has slowed down so much but you still see the prices going up up and away...
RXW and other homage pieces? These are really value for money. But you gotta be honest with yourself and confess if that is good enough. It's like getting a less salt, less black sauce, less chinese sausage, less cockles, healthy cha kway tiao when what you really want is a plate of greasy, heart-stopping, no-holds barred, RA CKT... eat the healthy version already, will your craving for CKT be really satisfied? If it really is, good for you. If otherwise.....

[Destro22BT]

Quick question.

You can get a used base-model type Explorer-I for about $4k, or a 14060M for about $4-4.5k.

What base model Panerai can I buy to experiment with for $4.5k on the resale market? What should I look for?

Used to be possible a year back, but honestly right now given the current market sentiments, even the most basic pre-owned PAM112/PAM0 commands at least 5k and up.

[teo]

Quick question.

You can get a used base-model type Explorer-I for about $4k, or a 14060M for about $4-4.5k.

What base model Panerai can I buy to experiment with for $4.5k on the resale market? What should I look for?

Preowned with ETA movement and smelly used leather strap.
Maybe preowned one also above 4.5k.

[keltzar]

Quick question.

You can get a used base-model type Explorer-I for about $4k, or a 14060M for about $4-4.5k.

What base model Panerai can I buy to experiment with for $4.5k on the resale market? What should I look for?

[teo]

Pay $6000+ for ETA movement and a strap that is not even a steel that is too expensive for panerai. Rolex is a better choice the bracelet is one of the highest grade stainless steel 904L, it is even better than 316L. Oyster bracelet do last long but not leather strap.

[chershen]

very interesting thread.

i had the same questions as you did.

but frankly, when you see a panerai. it really does appeal and attract.

with the different straps combi, it is a very attractive watch. amidst my fave rolexes, i have a sole 005 to cure my inert fantasy. owning one is probably enough with the many straps i am planning to get. i also set myself a limit for the pam. nothing more than 6k for one. anything more, a rolex is a rolex is a rolex. 10k for a pam, i rather a full gold DD.

current prices are driven by economics - supplier restricts supply and so on...

when you see the whoole package of the pam, you will see that is a worth your $.

you are right in that they use base ETA movement but do refer to another thread where this was discuss, watch makers like pam and such rebuild the components to their specs.

it is quite personal. perhaps, once you have cured your urges for rolexes, other temptations will kick in...

cheers.

[seb]

a long discussed issue, thought the discussion from another forum might help.. also read it before i took my plunge
http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3850

[jazz_samz]

Thanks for sharing your intersting experience...

[Destro22BT]

Ahh... Let me share my story. In 2004, before I became a watch collector, I've always considered the Rolex as the grail watch, like many others. Face it, it's one of the top brands in the whole world. In house movement, timeless case design, as good as instant cash strapped to the wrist, that 'woah! he wears a lolek neh!' attention u get. What more can you ask?

I knew of Panerai that time, seeing as one of my neighbours donned a PAM115 Destro. A Destro Luminor felt 'right' to me with its crown guard on the left, perhaps because it's my first encounter with panerai in the flesh, though it was only a lukewarm feel towards it. It irked me knowing that Panerai houses a cheap ass unitas mvt that costs US$75. I tot to myself, maybe geddit after I get my first Rolex. In 2005, after reviewing the Rolex thread in HWZ Forum (which ultimately gave birth to sg-roc), I took the plunge and bought my first Sub Date. I was in love and it was a dream come true. Subsequently, after getting over the initial euphoria of owning the Sub Date, I tot... maybe it's time I got myself a 'lesser' watch, which I decided to be a PAM115 destro, seeing more and more ppl on the streets with Panerai strapped to their wrist. It was a difficult hunt for the watch given my budget of S$5k, but one fine day, I received a call from my AD and he mentioned that there is a piece of PAM112H available for me should I want it. The discount was fabulous, so I tot... why not? and decided that this first Panerai 112H will be a 'fun' watch. It did feel funny at first, at a huge 44mm case...and constantly, I tot my purchase was really over the top, overpaying for a watch with such a cheap movement, but wat the hell? But the funny thing was that I started to wear the Panerai more than the Subdate. And on days when I wore the Subdate, I missed my Panerai and immediately switched to it when I reached home. Funny... I thought to myself, but each time I felt that way, I assurred myself... Rolex is still the grail for me...full stop. In 2006, I sold my subdate and went for the dweller for the cleaner look. I also bought a PAM190I which was made available to me (now that is a piece that's worth it's price IMO... it's got a 8day complication). To free up funds for the PAM190, I had to sell one, and decided that it's my PAM112. And after the initial PAM190 excitement, I experienced this thing called seller's remourse. It was bad. I missed it to bits. I wanted my 112 back badly. I regretted the sale and it was difficult to say why. It just felt wrong. Though I regretted, I told myself that if I were to get a Luminor back on my wrist... but it has to be a Destro, because that's what I've always wanted. Then as fate had it arranged for me... I chanced upon a PAM22 at one of the dealers. He didn't know what he was selling me... a prized PAM22 with 'T' dial, no longer in production. He quoted me what I tot was a good price for it, and I took it without the need to even think. And recently, I cleared all my Rolex collection for Panerai. I tot to myself if I'd feel that seller's remourse for my Dweller... and feared it would strike me the second time. But somehow along the way, the dweller became just too small for me...and after months of selling it, I never did feel any remourse.

I'm not saying that Panerai sings to every man on the street, in fact, I've seen ppl ditching Panerai for Rolex simply because it's not their cuppa tea, perhaps members of sg-roc who has gone this way could share their experience?

Many have said the big watch fad will go away since 2003/2004. Look at things now, the demand for Panerai is still through the roof (not to mention its price!), how often do you actually see a piece on display at the dealers, and for how long? And let's look at Rolex... Re-edition of Milgauss at 40mm, GMT 2 having a redesigned larger-looking case, the release of deep sea dweller at 43.5mm. Why? And what next? Explorer 2 getting a larger case? I leave it to the readers to decide, dun wish to enter into an argument in any case

But for my case, some logical reasons for the love of Panerai is the case design with the crown guard, the size, the attention it gets, the versatility of it (in terms of strap choices, u'll never get enough!) and the way it holds its value NOW. But mainly, the love for Panerai is really illogical for me...I really can't explain... I just smile everytime its on my wrist, it feels good to wind it every morning, and like how many Paneristi sum it up... Get your first Panerai and u'll know why.

[urbanemperor]

hehe. RXW! good price. good quality!

[seiko.citizen]

i agree that panerai is overpriced, but for as long as people are willing to pay a premium, the price will always be there. just like property, every "speculate" but eventually, the price will automatically adjust itself and it will come crashing down. i think we are all waiting for that one day

[keltzar]

... in other words, if rolex only raised prices to keep up with inflation, the 16610 M-series should only be selling for <S$5000.



So above $5k, its priced to cater to demand ...

[Nooch]

Did it occur to you by how much?

Here's an idea:

Sub 1680: 1973 current model red Sub new (in '73)- US$385
Sub 1680: 1973 model inflation adjusted for 2008 - US$2900+.

Converted to SGD:
Sub 1680 inflation adjusted in SGD - $2900x1.38 = S$4000+
Sub 16610 current model 2008 - S$7800+.
Sub 1680 1973 red dial as collectible in 2008 - about S$15,000+.

That suggests that current model 16610 in 2008 vs 1680 in 1973, has appreciated 2x as fast as inflation ...

Wow bro, cheem sia, haha..so it means the price now is quite mad..

[keltzar]

rolex to me is also overpriced.

Did it occur to you by how much?

Here's an idea:

Sub 1680: 1973 current model red Sub new (in '73)- US$385
Sub 1680: 1973 model inflation adjusted for 2008 - US$2900+.

Converted to SGD:
Sub 1680 inflation adjusted in SGD - $2900x1.38 = S$4000+
Sub 16610 current model 2008 - S$7800+.
Sub 1680 1973 red dial as collectible in 2008 - about S$15,000+.

That suggests that current model 16610 in 2008 vs 1680 in 1973, has appreciated 2x as fast as inflation ...