Panerai overpriced?

[Paneraii]

Ahem...

[Oceanklassik]

Well said

[Of Watches & Men]

Only a handful of watch companies today are 100% manufacturer.

Even Rolex SA do not & has never claim in-house horlogerie manufacturer.
The links or bracelets for Rolex are made by ARTeLinks.
Hands & dials for Rolex are outsourced to ArTeCad.
Steel case for Rolex watches are made by SWATCH group
Rolex movements are made by Valjoux's secret assembly division that's protected under Swiss law & it's ebouche are loosely implemented by Dubuis Depraz.

FYI, ARTeLinks, ArTeCad, Valjoux & Dubuis Depraz are owned by SWATCH and shared by LVMH, Richemont & many others in a secret deal chaired by Swiss govt since 1997.

Everyone in the industry knows about this.

The reason everyone had to depend on shared facilities is due to many blueprints and watch making skills that were lost along with the passing of time, watchmaer, masters & craftsmans during these dark period of mechanical watches in 1980 & 1990s.

These companies like Rolex, AP, GP, Omega & TAG cover up the story of facility sharing by using a stakeholdings as claim that that foundry on this location & this bulding belongs to them when in actual fact, the building has not sighboards and is SHARED.

Pls goto Valley of Joux to check my facts...none of the foundries are tagged.

Hi Bro,

Many thanks for the background.

To me any discussion/agrument on watch brand/value/size/etc is fruitless coz every collector or fan will have their favourites. Some prefer watches with deep traditions like Rolex and PP, others prefer brands with radical designs like Hublot or even Zenith. As the saying goes, "to each his own".

The current watch trends of "bigger" and "flashier" (thru use of exotic materials) are certainly intended to attract the younger generation into horology. In our parents' days, watches are both functional and a status of wealth. Today, it is more of a status of wealth (no doubt), selling a lifestyle and fashion. Watch goes beyond functional needs to become an accessory for many, especially yuppies. e.g. A VC dress watch for dinner; a Sub for diving; and a Tag Heuer as a daily beater, etc.

Agreed that we are overpaying for a watch if the timepiece is valued as a functional object. If viewed as a luxury sentimental item, each of us would hold a value to every watch other than the price tag attached. Would I pay $7k for a Rolex or Panerai? Probably yes if (1) I love the watch so much and (2) the perceived value of the watch is comparably higher than the others.

For the record, my two beloved brands are Zenith and GO but I have since diversified my collection to include Chronoswiss, IWC, Rolex, Omega, Tag Heuer and Panerai. Down the years I could add a VC and another Zenith. Why? I have became a sucker of the lifestyle that watch manufacturers have implanted in us... Hence, I look out for watches which fits into what I already have not owned.

I am sure many of us shared the same experiences when you pondered "I need to add a chrono", "I don't have a diver watch", "how about a split second or moonphase function", etc.

Bro - am keen to learn more about the "secret deal" you mentioned in your post. Care to share the sources so that we can have a better appreciation of what we are paying for in watches.

Thanks

[Ender]

I dunno where you got your history from, but I flip thru the book titled, "Panerai in Florence 150 Years of History" by former CEO of Panerai, Mr Dino Zei.....there's no gap in any decades for Panerai.....
Bear in mind that Richmont or previously Vendome Grp only bought the rights to to use the Luminor & Radomir casing for commercial purpose in 1997.
The division in charge of producing watches & instruments for Italian Navy is still a privately own company that's not purchased by Richemont of anyone else, ever. It's still churning out watches & instruments under full secrecy as it's protected by Italian secrecy laws that strictly prohibit any publications or reproductions or manufacturing. The very fact that no watch can use the wordings "Marina Militare" without approval from Italian Navy is a proof of this.
PAM36, 217 & 267s, "Marina Militare" prints were approved by Italian Navy for public use. If you speak of gap, mind you that between 1980s up to 1996, almost 2000 watchmaking companies & related support services Co. went bust in Switzerland no thanks to Quartz revolution that got started by ironically a consortium on Swiss watchmakers that was copied by Seiko, Citizen Orient, & Casio. Only a handful of watch companies today are 100% manufacturer. Even Rolex SA do not & has never claim in-house horlogerie manufacturer. The links or bracelets for Rolex are made by ARTeLinks. Hands & dials for Rolex are outsourced to ArTeCad. Steel case for Rolex watches are made by SWATCH group Rolex movements are made by Valjoux's secret assembly division that's protected under Swiss law & it's ebouche are loosely implemented by Dubuis Depraz. Diamonds for Rolex are cut and polished by
FYI, ARTeLinks, ArTeCad, Valjoux & Dubuis Depraz are owned by SWATCH and shared by LVMH, Richemont & many others in a secret deal chaired by Swiss govt since 1997. Everyone in the industry knows about this. To add, except PP & VC, almost all of Swiss watch making industry share the SWATCH facilities which actually owned by Swiss govt and this included Audemars Piguet, Breilting, Zenith, BRM, Tiffacy, Mont Blanc, Chopard, Omega, TAG & many other brands. The only thing that Rolex made in-house is the gold case in it's own foundries. The reason everyone had to depend on shared facilities is due to many blueprints and watch making skills that were lost along with the passing of time, watchmaer, masters & craftsmans during these dark period of mechanical watches in 1980 & 1990s. The situation is so bad that in 1990s, no one in Switzerland apart from ValJoux's ETA arm know how implement an ebouche. So, after the revival on interest in mechanical watches thanks, ironcially to the our Japanese collectors who got sick of Quartz in mid-1990s, almost all of wathes & this include Rolex are actually made by Swatch till today. These companies like Rolex, AP, GP, Omega & TAG cover up the story of facility sharing by using a stakeholdings as claim that that foundry on this location & this bulding belongs to them when in actual fact, the building has not sighboards and is SHARED. Pls goto Valley of Joux to check my facts...none of the foundries are tagged. Many watch companies like Omega, Cartier, Heuer, Zenith & etc had to be liquidated & put up for sale. Most brands that're viable are bought by Swatch, Richemont, LVMH & etc which explains this arrangement. In fact, 2 yrs ago, BRM, Graham, Hublot, B&R & U-Boat up the ante when the sourced semi-complete parts from China using child & slave labour! The fact that Panerai is clean & above this mess is the reason why it's so collectible even when it never or seldom make any case till 1980s. It never make any mvmt till 2002! Patek is used by royal dynasties worldwide since 1880s. If you got $, then go buy PP & tell everone it's not overpriced. Rolex is nothing but a mere watch trader till 1950s which print "Rolex" on peoples' product. The very fact it was rejected by NASA for space missions & US Airforce test flight speaks volumes in 1960 & 1970s. Rolex gave the stupid reason their USA sales dept agent was late to deliver the watches....I find this reason very amusing as how can you miss delivering all the watches for all the 19 Apollo missions? Using Edmund Hillary who actually is not the 1st man on Everest but claimed to be so, reckless Pan-Am pilots that practically crashed so many planes that Pan-Am folded, LPGA tournaments, meaningless Regattas, mundane James Bonds films & ads blitz in every known maganizes & nations' dailies worldwide is the only good thing about Rolex & nothing else since 1940s till today. Luckily James bond realized this and changed to Omega. AP is only good in churning out same shaped & same mvmt watches under many material guises like rubber & carbon for it's ROO using losers like Juan Pablo Montoya, Rubbens Barrachelo & Shaquille O'Neil and serial rapist & mollester Arnold Schwarzenegger bereft of any real applications history.
I thanks heavens Panerai is the only brand that's free from any ambassador.
I shudder to think how much money actually went to team Alinghi, Michael Schumacher, Nicole Kidman, Kimi Raikonen, Uma Thurman, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, John Travolta, Nicholas Cage, Internation Space Station & many others than going into the watch. In fact, I lost count how many brands sponsored Antartica expeditions. The very reason why these brands had to use ambassadors & event or expediction to ply their watches if the very reason why so many like me are put off by these brands.
I rather pay USD30k for a watch that's worth USD300 like PAM341 because it's a hommage to the real people who use it in 1956 in Egypt than cheats like Edmund Hillary and losers like Juan Pablo Montoya & Barrachelo.
I've never lost any monies on Panerai. I lost so much monies on Rolex that I lost count.... Lastly, no offense here, ALL WATCHES ARE OVERPRIZED....
Anyone who paid above USD100 for a watch is overpaying....

wah, I read until croxx-eyed. the information, assuming they are accurate, on the history and current status of the various watch brands is intriguing. BUT...
1) you sure that pam did not have ambassadors or sponsor events? mike horn? not sure if mr rambo can be considered an ambassador but by all accounts, he was.
2) ending off your post with the point about the monies lost on rolex vs pam makes one suspect about the objectivity of your post.

luckily you put your post here and not at VRF or some other forums dedicated to the brands of watches you just slagged, they wld have activated their death-squad to come look for you!

[116520]

But I think it is very hard to say, there is no fashion that can last forever...

I will not wear my dad's watches bought in the 70s, those thin, small, TT, knited bracelet Rolexes and Pateks... although they do retain to a "value" but how I wish my dad had bought more 6263 or 6265 in those days....

10 years back, people were predicting that the big watch 'fad' would die after 2 years. 10 years down the road, many top brands are joining the bandwagon.....Rolex DSSD, AP ROO, Hublot, PP Aquanuat, IWC, etc. Lange probabaly one of few still not going above 40mm.

I don't think big watch is a fad. It's here to stay. People who can afford to buy luxury watches won't stop at one. So, there is always a market for all segments of watches, movement, big, precious metal etc.

[Democritus]

Panerai is an overpriced ghost brand, a figment of its own former imagination, making its own gaudy overpriced frankenhomages to its own vintage models.

It's hard for me to believe these things continue escalating in price, and I'm not sure they will continue holding value once the big clunky watch fad dies off.

10 years back, people were predicting that the big watch 'fad' would die after 2 years. 10 years down the road, many top brands are joining the bandwagon.....Rolex DSSD, AP ROO, Hublot, PP Aquanuat, IWC, etc. Lange probabaly one of few still not going above 40mm.

I don't think big watch is a fad. It's here to stay. People who can afford to buy luxury watches won't stop at one. So, there is always a market for all segments of watches, movement, big, precious metal etc.

[WSSS]

Hmmm, Panerai has no ambassadors? What about Mike Horn? To a certain extent, Slyvester Stallone was used as an ambassador prior to Richemont's purchase of Panerai, with the creation of Slytechs

[PamDino]

Fred,

As much as I love my Pams and know why I love them (thus can agree with your stand), I think your manner of expression may not go down well with others......espcially since this is a Rolex forum.

Well. To put it more balanced. I have more Pams than Rolexes and APs but I never find them overpriced or I wouldn't be buying them.

I find some Rolex/Pams/AP overpriced but some others not. It is all down to personal preference. Eg: A $8000 16750 is not overpriced to me but a $7500 SubLV is. To others, it may be the opposite. So, it's rather relative. I would choose a $6000 sub over a Pam 111 but would get a 249 over a Daytona.

Fred is the NO.1 PAM LOVER & SUPPORTER

But, I did not realise that there are so many secrets

Dino

[Watch-connoisseur]

Panerai is an overpriced ghost brand, a figment of its own former imagination, making its own gaudy overpriced frankenhomages to its own vintage models.

It's hard for me to believe these things continue escalating in price, and I'm not sure they will continue holding value once the big clunky watch fad dies off.

[Fred_Tan]

Fred,

...I think your manner of expression may not go down well with others......espcially since this is a Rolex forum..

Yes, sir, I'll tone down...

[116520]

249 over a Daytona?

Fred,

As much as I love my Pams and know why I love them (thus can agree with your stand), I think your manner of expression may not go down well with others......espcially since this is a Rolex forum.

Well. To put it more balanced. I have more Pams than Rolexes and APs but I never find them overpriced or I wouldn't be buying them.

I find some Rolex/Pams/AP overpriced but some others not. It is all down to personal preference. Eg: A $8000 16750 is not overpriced to me but a $7500 SubLV is. To others, it may be the opposite. So, it's rather relative. I would choose a $6000 sub over a Pam 111 but would get a 249 over a Daytona.

[Democritus]

Fred,

As much as I love my Pams and know why I love them (thus can agree with your stand), I think your manner of expression may not go down well with others......espcially since this is a Rolex forum.

Well. To put it more balanced. I have more Pams than Rolexes and APs but I never find them overpriced or I wouldn't be buying them.

I find some Rolex/Pams/AP overpriced but some others not. It is all down to personal preference. Eg: A $8000 16750 is not overpriced to me but a $7500 SubLV is. To others, it may be the opposite. So, it's rather relative. I would choose a $6000 sub over a Pam 111 but would get a 249 over a Daytona.

[louie]

Panerai I Love You!

speechless........................................ .................................................. ..........................................

[116520]

One question bro, I thought Panerai became popular after Sylvester Stallone weared a Panerai Luminor Marina many many years back and create this "oversized watch crazy"?

Later, Panerai introduced a limited edition of 200 pieces in conjunction with famed actor Sylvester Stallone for their "Slytech" line of watches. The "Luminor Daylight" follows the design of the wristwatch worn by Stallone in the 1996 movie "Daylight".

I thanks heavens Panerai is the only brand that's free from any ambassador.
I shudder to think how much money actually went to team Alinghi, Michael Schumacher, Nicole Kidman, Kimi Raikonen, Uma Thurman, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, John Travolta, Nicholas Cage, Internation Space Station & many others than going into the watch.

In fact, I lost count how many brands sponsored Antartica expeditions.

The very reason why these brands had to use ambassadors & event or expediction to ply their watches if the very reason why so many like me are put off by these brands.

I rather pay USD30k for a watch that's worth USD300 like PAM341 because it's a hommage to the real people who use it in 1956 in Egypt than cheats like Edmund Hillary and losers like Juan Pablo Montoya & Barrachelo.

I've never lost any monies on Panerai.
I lost so much monies on Rolex that I lost count....

Lastly, no offense here, ALL WATCHES ARE OVERPRIZED....
Anyone who paid above USD100 for a watch is overpaying....

[116520]

Another A paper...