Don't understand Panerai...

[minusplus]

I for one ordered a strap with off-white slightly brownish stitches to go with the patina of my 22BT.

Pam22? That has been discont already? Think it's probably one of the most collectible Destros around. IIRC, there's only a total of 1500 pam22s ever produced.

I see your point, and I do agree that there are some Rolex pieces that if I'd bought in 2004/5 (especially the 1655's or 1675's if I'd gotten them), I'd not be likely to sell them. I sold all my contemporary dweller and sub for them Panerai. Not that I'm slamming Rolex here, I mean I'm totally in love with Rolex vintages and the Daytona Patrizzis. And plus the fact that I feel that whenever I think bracelet watches, I think Rolex sports series.... Panerai bracelets just dun cut it for me... they're too loud and feel like handcuffs, only suitable if my wrists are 8 inches and above.

I think rolex and panerai are completely different fruits altogether... I can't agree more with you that rolex still produces better bracelet watches. panerai's bracelet watches are very heavy and ruggard to a certain extent but it's quite uncomfortable when donned on the wrist...

[Destro22BT]

bro..that 111 is a brand new piece..but one thing i dun like is that the fellow seems to be taking me for a ride..500 top up plus my 2 weeks old explorer 2..i would have gone ahead if it was a even trade..

Ahhh.... I see... even so, back then, at most it's a 1-1 swap that I'll agree to.

[leslie]

Well, back then if u'd gone through with the transaction, u'd have committed to a losing transaction, as a preowned 111 could be had for under 5k easily.

But now... I guess if u're interested in PAMs and have the stomach for the price, just close both eyes, buy one, wear for a month... and I'm 70% sure u'll fall in love with it. By then... maybe u can relate to why ppl are willing to buy a watch with a simple design, weird looking crown guard, matched with a US$75 unitas movement.

bro..that 111 is a brand new piece..but one thing i dun like is that the fellow seems to be taking me for a ride..500 top up plus my 2 weeks old explorer 2..i would have gone ahead if it was a even trade..

[denteo]

Well, back then if u'd gone through with the transaction, u'd have committed to a losing transaction, as a preowned 111 could be had for under 5k easily.

But now... I guess if u're interested in PAMs and have the stomach for the price, just close both eyes, buy one, wear for a month... and I'm 70% sure u'll fall in love with it. By then... maybe u can relate to why ppl are willing to buy a watch with a simple design, weird looking crown guard, matched with a US$75 unitas movement.

And to add on to desto22bt's comprehensive post, I believe Tritium was banned due to radiation of the chemicals from tritium which can cause health hazard to the painters?

Anyway, I still stand firm to my belief that PAM is a great watch no matter what kind of movement they are using. These babies are simply gorgeous and amazing

[Destro22BT]

dunno leh..i nearly exchanged my 2 weeks old 16570 for a 111 h back in 2006..but in the end the deal did not go through..partly because that fellow wants me to top up $500 bucks..i was thinking how come a cal 3185 exchange for a unitas 6497-1 still must top up 500 bucks..thnks god that i didn't exchange it back then..amitabah..

Well, back then if u'd gone through with the transaction, u'd have committed to a losing transaction, as a preowned 111 could be had for under 5k easily.

But now... I guess if u're interested in PAMs and have the stomach for the price, just close both eyes, buy one, wear for a month... and I'm 70% sure u'll fall in love with it. By then... maybe u can relate to why ppl are willing to buy a watch with a simple design, weird looking crown guard, matched with a US$75 unitas movement.

[Destro22BT]

I see your point, and I do agree that there are some Rolex pieces that if I'd bought in 2004/5 (especially the 1655's or 1675's if I'd gotten them), I'd not be likely to sell them. I sold all my contemporary dweller and sub for them Panerai. Not that I'm slamming Rolex here, I mean I'm totally in love with Rolex vintages and the Daytona Patrizzis. And plus the fact that I feel that whenever I think bracelet watches, I think Rolex sports series.... Panerai bracelets just dun cut it for me... they're too loud and feel like handcuffs, only suitable if my wrists are 8 inches and above.

Well, one way that I've managed to convince myself on a Panerai back then... Get a historic pam, feel the winding... then get yourself... say a Glycine Incursore Manual Wind (no offence to Glycine owners here), wind it and feel the difference. There's quite a bit of improvment Panerai makes to the movement IMO.

Well said.... never try to understand Panerai...truely, for me... the overall package swayed me over. The design, the feel, the attention it gets in the lift or anywhere. One can even spot a Panerai from across the road.

[Destro22BT]

Now, even a preowned Pam0 costs close to 5.5k or maybe even more...

Haha... I'm liquidating either 1 of the 2 Daytonas but will keep 1 because I think they're still worth holding. As for the Pam1BT and Pam2BT, what're some background about them and why are they so expensive? Care to share?

Ok, if u're ready, here's T-dials 101

T-dial PAMs are typically manufactured before their ban in 1999/2000 iirc. So they stop at the B series which are manufactured in 1999 too. Why T-dials are so desirable is the fact that they yellow with age and develop patina, much like what u see in vintage rolexes. And in Panerai world... the beauty of it lies in the developed patina MATCHED with the dial design... the shape and size of the indices/numerals/hands. It has that true aged look that many ppl will match their strap-stitchings to, and it looks 'warm' to the sight. I for one ordered a strap with off-white slightly brownish stitches to go with the patina of my 22BT.

And of course, the total number of T dial pieces remaining from gets lesser and lesser comparitively as the production numbers increase throughout the years. So.. T-dialed PAMs are a school of Limited Edition pieces in their own right, as compared to the number of L- dial PAMS. So tell me if they're not about to become more and more expensive throughout the years to come?

The more affordable T-dialed PAMs are the neo-vintage GMTS such as the PAM29A, PAM23 for e.g. that can be had for under S$15k...but only for god knows how long.

Of course the exceptions are the PAM24 and 25 that were regarded as tool watches and have Tritium as their indices. However, those too... might very well become the T-dialed submersible grails in time to come as their successors are being replaced with L-dials.

[leslie]

ONce u have one, you won't stop..highly addictive.

Like pringles, once you pop. u cannot stop.

Hope to get a 219, a 24 and a 233. The best would be 270 but abit ex.

dunno leh..i nearly exchanged my 2 weeks old 16570 for a 111 h back in 2006..but in the end the deal did not go through..partly because that fellow wants me to top up $500 bucks..i was thinking how come a cal 3185 exchange for a unitas 6497-1 still must top up 500 bucks..thnks god that i didn't exchange it back then..amitabah..

[minusplus]

I do agree with you on the possibility of Panerai creating a landscape that no other brand has ever achieved. They're clearly segmenting their high end complication pieces from their 'affordable' man-on-the-street models like the historic base and marinas.

Many Paneristi frown on such a move, as it suggests that the high end pieces with complications shifts the very DNA of Panerai away from its origins. But look at what has changed from 2006 when they introduced such higher-end pieces? They get more die hard fans. And they have been pretty successful in 'pulling-in' more die-hards for each segment. Ppl whom I've known to wear AP ROO and AP ROO's only now ditch them and sport PAM 233s, PAM249s. there are more ppl who were pure AP fans wearing Panerai. And stop by Francis' at Truely Collectibles for a chat and u'll see many of his customers ditching their Rolexes for Panerai also. Temporary phenomenon? Maybe, and I dunno for the long term, but for now, the price increases and the way pieces move off the pre-owned mkt speak for the brand, and I'm just contented with having my pieces with me.

Good analysis. There're quite a few hardcore Panerai fans in this forum, and I believe you definitely qualify as one.

I'm not about to dump all my Rolexes because some of them still mean a lot, especially my first Rolex and those that were gifts from others. Rolexes still have their own appeal to a certain extent, and I'm saying this not because we're in a Rolex forum.

Having said that, I admit that Panerais are really attractive and addictive. To those who are thinking of getting a Pam, pls get one and don't need to even think about it. Because you'll not lose money as the prices of Pams will rise when you close your eyes and open your eyes again.

To those who don't understand Panerais, pls don't try to. Or you'll end up getting bitten by the Panerai bug. And mind you, when the bug bites, it bites real hard

[minusplus]

Well yes... I am on the lookout for a PAM0 too. Primarily because of the logo and it's closed back. It used to be well priced for a beater under 4.5k, but not now...

Dude, after your acquisition of the simplistic historic PAMs, very likely u'd head towards liquidating a few pieces for one with T-dials. PAM1A/BT,PAM2A/BT,PAM22A/BT,PAM36,PAM40.
Well, since u're liquidating 2 of your datonas now, why not consider a PAM1BT or PAM2BT since they can be had for abt the price of one of your daytonas? As we speak, even the B series T dials will soon be breaching the S$20k mark

Now, even a preowned Pam0 costs close to 5.5k or maybe even more...

Haha... I'm liquidating either 1 of the 2 Daytonas but will keep 1 because I think they're still worth holding. As for the Pam1BT and Pam2BT, what're some background about them and why are they so expensive? Care to share?

[Destro22BT]

Ah... You're looking for the 000 also? I'm also finding that one together with the rest of the base models, like 112, 114 & 176. I find simplicity a beauty for such watches...

Looking at the way things are going, I forsee Panerais may even bring about a new revolution in watches. Something that perhaps no watch companies have ever done before...

Well yes... I am on the lookout for a PAM0 too. Primarily because of the logo and it's closed back. It used to be well priced for a beater under 4.5k, but not now...

Dude, after your acquisition of the simplistic historic PAMs, very likely u'd head towards liquidating a few pieces for one with T-dials. PAM1A/BT,PAM2A/BT,PAM22A/BT,PAM36,PAM40.
Well, since u're liquidating 2 of your datonas now, why not consider a PAM1BT or PAM2BT since they can be had for abt the price of one of your daytonas? As we speak, even the B series T dials will soon be breaching the S$20k mark.

I do agree with you on the possibility of Panerai creating a landscape that no other brand has ever achieved. They're clearly segmenting their high end complication pieces from their 'affordable' man-on-the-street models like the historic base and marinas.

Many Paneristi frown on such a move, as it suggests that the high end pieces with complications shifts the very DNA of Panerai away from its origins. But look at what has changed from 2006 when they introduced such higher-end pieces? They get more die hard fans. And they have been pretty successful in 'pulling-in' more die-hards for each segment. Ppl whom I've known to wear AP ROO and AP ROO's only now ditch them and sport PAM 233s, PAM249s. there are more ppl who were pure AP fans wearing Panerai. And stop by Francis' at Truely Collectibles for a chat and u'll see many of his customers ditching their Rolexes for Panerai also. Temporary phenomenon? Maybe, and I dunno for the long term, but for now, the price increases and the way pieces move off the pre-owned mkt speak for the brand, and I'm just contented with having my pieces with me.

[kermit e froggy]

A word of Precaution to all buying pre-own Pams or even LNIB OR BNIB Pam from private dealers. Get your newly purchase Pam authenticate like most who did to Rolex.

[minusplus]

And the most ridiculous? I went to the gray market dealers at Wanchai in Hongkong, and guess that they quoted me for a PAM0G? $7.8k, and I went with a local who bargained hard.

Ah... You're looking for the 000 also? I'm also finding that one together with the rest of the base models, like 112, 114 & 176. I find simplicity a beauty for such watches...

Looking at the way things are going, I forsee Panerais may even bring about a new revolution in watches. Something that perhaps no watch companies have ever done before...

[Destro22BT]

Indeed. Like what i said before. If you don't get it now, it will only be more expensive in future. So, just bite the bullet and chiong la

There must be a reason why it's so popular and addictive... I finally found out but pocket burnt hole liao. hahah

Yeap... I sure agree. I sold all my Rolex for PAMs, never regretted. But for a person like me, who started with PAMs since 2005, it's really tough to adjust the mindset for Panerai these days. Cummon, a pre-owned 112G could be had for about S$3.6k, when it's about S$5.5k easily? Previously, there was 0 demand for white dials 114 and 113, but now? Any piece that appears, ppl grab.

And the most ridiculous? I went to the gray market dealers at Wanchai in Hongkong, and guess that they quoted me for a PAM0G? $7.8k, and I went with a local who bargained hard.

[minusplus]

Indeed. Like what i said before. If you don't get it now, it will only be more expensive in future. So, just bite the bullet and chiong la

There must be a reason why it's so popular and addictive... I finally found out but pocket burnt hole liao. hahah