Verification @ RSC and other alternatives

[cmclee]

Thanks for all the experts here and their advice. So bottom line, to be 100% sure, send in the watch for full service ?

[triton]

thanks taxico and KuchingKu for your insight

[KuchingKu]

I have always bought watches without paying the 75. Just do homework and buy the seller. A trusted seller that is knowledgeable is worth the 5 to 10% premium.

[taxico]

ooops... typo!

you pays yer moneys and you takes yer chances...!

btw, a worn bushing can be seen/heard.

[taxico]

... so this would mean that RSC $75 is not a true authentication process. for that, i think i wont pay them for any authentication fee in future.

that is MY opinion. i'm entitled to it, whether or not it's true. for example, i -just- met a seller who was shocked that i would be willing to buy it without paying the $75 fee at RSC. he said that he would not be able to buy a rolex without authenticating it first...

i guess what i should have said was: at RSC or at mcdonald's... you pays yer money and you takes yer chances...

also maybe you can shed some light why is it that they ask me to service couple of the 6694 that i brought in? can they say that it is in need of a service by just opening the case and not looking at the movement by not removing the rotor? because they do tell me that this part, that part(exclude the parts based on visual inspection) needs to be replaced because they are worn

regarding your question... you're probably better off reading this first:

http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php...ate-980...-(!)

[triton]

thanks for the clarification. so this would mean that RSC $75 is not a true authentication process. for that, i think i wont pay them for any authentication fee in future.

also maybe you can shed some light why is it that they ask me to service couple of the 6694 that i brought in? can they say that it is in need of a service by just opening the case and not looking at the movement by not removing the rotor? because they do tell me that this part, that part(exclude the parts based on visual inspection) needs to be replaced because they are worn

the only way to GUARANTEE that it is ENTIRELY 101% genuine and original is to send it for a full $1,000 RSC service, not a $75 visual inspection.

[KuchingKu]

My view is that there is no real need to pay the 75. I only go when buyers want it. Either you rely on your own knowledge or send in for a full 790 service.

They do not tell you about period correctness other than the obvious (bracelet). For vintage, they may even refuse to authenticate the watch if the serial number cannot be seen clearly....but that is not to say the watch is not real and original.

[Watcha]

Good info mr taxico.

I agree that $75 can't get the whole movement certified genuine.
But that's pretty much what a layman can get. Paying for some confidence.
Like audit. Still scam but no one better for some trust.

For parts if material quality same and finishing/tolerance same.
No one can tell too. Rolex finishing is no PP.

[Oceanklassik]

Wow! How detail can you be

[taxico]

im not very good with english, so what you are trying to say is that...

you step into RSC Singapore. you go to the counter, hand over the watch, tell them you want it authenticated. they take your watch, ask for your name, address and phone number. you then step away as they put the watch into a green envelope.

the envelope is then brought into the glass room, and placed on the watchmaker's desk closest to the door. the watchmaker then takes out the watch, inspects the watch with AND without a loupe. he will make notes as to the physical condition of the watch's exterior.

he will then remove the bracelet, and he will examine the bracelet (now or later). he will scribble more notes about the condition of the bracelet.

he then proceeds to view the watch under the electron video microscope. he makes more notes. he then removes the back of the watch - he examines the inside of the watch, the case back, and the movement with a loupe. more note scribbling. he might even look at the gasket (rubber 'o' ring).

he then inspects the movement under the electron video microscope. more scribbling. this is what he will see:



this is a picture of the bare movement:



this is the rotor assembly.



if you remove the rotor, you will see this:







if you remove the balance, you will see this:



more stuff removed, and you get this:



at no time is the dial (nor hands) removed to see this (or to examine the back of the dial):



when all is done, the watchmaker will close the watch case, return it to its green envelope, and someone will bring it to the counter and you wait for your name to be called, or for them to give you a call on the phone.

therefore, we can conclude, your $75 is paid for a watchmaker to look at picture 1, the dial, hands, case, bezel, crystal, case back and bracelet.

that fee also allows them to damage your watch (eg, lugs) in the process, allow them to note down your movement's serial number, case model number, case serial number, bracelet code and model number.

if they were to be satisfied based on picture 1, dial, hands, case and bracelet that it's genuine, they will issue you a receipt and charge you $75 for that process.

if you walked out, then return 10 minutes later with the same watch for service, and if you are unlucky such that they find a few items that are not genuine rolex parts hidden inside the movement, they will change it to genuine parts and bill you accordingly.

they may or may not notify you. it may or may not be important. if they decide one day, for whatever reason, to refuse to service a watch IF there's one/any part inside that movement that is not genuine... then what good is that $75 paid?

the good (and bad) news is, most of the inner workings of the rolex movement are easily replaced - anywhere, including RSC, or even at an indonesian market stall.

the bad (or good) news is that, most of the time, we may not know because their service receipt is not itemized, nor do they return the parts to us.

some say ignorance is bliss. therefore... it's really up to you to decide if the pre-owned watch you have bought is 100% genuine.

the only way to GUARANTEE that it is ENTIRELY 101% genuine and original is to send it for a full $1,000 RSC service, not a $75 visual inspection.

[hilbero]

My friend sent in his 1680 for verification and was told to wait for 2 days as they need to check with Geneva regarding the serial number. Is that usually the case ?

Did they returned the watch or the RSC kept it?

I was at HongKong a few months ago and I simply want to have the tropic crystal replaced on my 1019, they then inspected the watch to see if they have the part for it and I was told they have it. They told me however to wait for a week or two because they will check the serial # in Switzerland because the watch serial is not in their database. What it means is that the watch was not bought in an AD in HK so they need to verify the serial first, if it was bought in an AD in HK they can work on it already. It is because the watch serial could be reportedly stolen, missing, etc.

If you really want to have it "fully authenticated", then I think as some said it needs to be disassembled/serviced. But thinking about it, the only part they will 100% verify when disassembling is the dial which has markings beneath. All the other parts can be verified by simply taking off the bracelet and caseback.

[triton]

im not very good with english, so what you are trying to say is that the 75 does not hold value based on the four points.

i like to understand more what you mean by point 2 - visual inspection = just looking or looking and dis-assemble the watch to have to closer look under the loupe.

scenario is that after authentication, i pay 75. they tell me that the watch needs a service. i collect the watch tells them that i sit @ the waiting area to think about it. 10 minutes later i go back tell them that i want to service the watch and they can reject to service my watch? (this is in reference to your point 4 which i underlined and bold). on what grounds they can reject. have you encountered this?

then i think we should feedback to RSC that they need to explictly state that the $75 (service charge) be changed to $75 (authentication fee) since we are asking for an authentication. however, you are right to state that the receipt at no point in time explictly state that the $75 is meant for authentication fee which means may not be legal binding.

i would not be too quick to jump to a "yes, the entire thing is original as i have a $75 receipt from RSC" because certain components can only be confirmed as a genuine part after disassembly.

most of us have all been through the verification process at one time or other... the man will look at the watch very carefully from the outside after removing the bracelet.

he will then open the case and check the movement carefully, then note the movement serial, then check the inside of the case back.

even with his video microscope... i have my doubts that based on THAT process, the man can be 100% sure the ENTIRE watch is genuine.

as such, the receipt only serves to prove that:

1. the watch has been handled by RSC.

2. based on a visual inspection, RSC thinks it's not a replica.

please note that the receipt does not even specifically state point #2. therefore a few implied points are:

3. RSC reserves the right to withdraw that opinion once the watch has been disassembled and non-genuine items are found within.

4. RSC reserves the right to refuse to service the watch even if a $75 receipt has been issued 10 minutes ago.

further (if i'm not wrong), the "verification receipt" is not itemized and as such, it will NOT state what is not genuine (eg, acrylic crystal) or erroneous (eg, bezel) - this is told VERBALLY to whomever is at the counter.

[taxico]

...yes it means all parts are authentic.

...if you referring to original rolex parts used. yes, they can tell. if not original, they return you the watch. however, for some vintage piece like 6694 where non original arcylic crystal and/or hands things like that they will inform you.

i would not be too quick to jump to a "yes, the entire thing is original as i have a $75 receipt from RSC" because certain components can only be confirmed as a genuine part after disassembly.

most of us have all been through the verification process at one time or other... the man will look at the watch very carefully from the outside after removing the bracelet.

he will then open the case and check the movement carefully, then note the movement serial, then check the inside of the case back.

even with his video microscope... i have my doubts that based on THAT process, the man can be 100% sure the ENTIRE watch is genuine.

as such, the receipt only serves to prove that:

1. the watch has been handled by RSC.

2. based on a visual inspection, RSC thinks it's not a replica.

please note that the receipt does not even specifically state point #2. therefore a few implied points are:

3. RSC reserves the right to withdraw that opinion once the watch has been disassembled and non-genuine items are found within.

4. RSC reserves the right to refuse to service the watch even if a $75 receipt has been issued 10 minutes ago.

further (if i'm not wrong), the "verification receipt" is not itemized and as such, it will NOT state what is not genuine (eg, acrylic crystal) or erroneous (eg, bezel) - this is told VERBALLY to whomever is at the counter.

[taxico]

My friend sent in his 1680 for verification and was told to wait for 2 days as they need to check with Geneva regarding the serial number. Is that usually the case ?

no, this is not usually the case. it depends on the person checking the watch and his experience. it happened to me, but geneva reported back that my watch is okay.

RSC wants to make sure that the serial number tallies with the case (ie, the number was recorded in switzerland as being issued TO that model).

if they call your friend to tell him that the serial number does not match, they will not issue paperwork...

[pegasi]

It's really tricky to handle vintage, especially rollies. Like some bros here have mentioned before, don't touch them unless you have learned enough of the piece you wanna buy. But what triton just shared here (authenticated not equal to all parts matching) is also new to me so thanks for the info!