Verification @ RSC and other alternatives

[lolex kia]

Wooo really ah? Thats cool man. Thanks bro

And of the aunties will tell you you are so handsome!

[kenlinliu1419]

And of the aunties will tell you you are so handsome!

[Watcha]

If in doubt still worth of pay for the "expert" opinion.

Not reported stolen. Even if 20% fake inside, at least where eyes can see are real.
Better than 100% fake.

[taxico]

If in doubt still worth of pay for the "expert" opinion.

Not reported stolen. Even if 20% fake inside, at least where eyes can see are real.
Better than 100% fake.

this is how i look at these rolex watches...

datejust - super fake is possible. a dial can be glued onto an ETA movement, and with the correct movement ring, it will sit properly inside a genuine 160xx/162xx oyster case so that the stem/gen crown lines up perfectly.

however the hands will have to be non-genuine ones as rolex hands won't fit an ETA movement IIRC. the datewheel will also be fake. therefore, if you know how to look at the pinion, date wheel, and how to listen out for a ball bearing equipped ETA movement, there is no way you will accept a super fake as a real item.

the same applies to the explorer 1 - however a genuine explorer 1 case is too expensive to be used as a super fake, so these are usually datejust cases with re-printed model number and a smooth bezel. however the model number is usually poorly engraved and/or will not look the same as the REGISTERED DESIGN engraving.

therefore, the explorer 1 can be easily ruled out as super fake.

a daytona super fake is also very unlikely as you can't just use a normal 7750 due to the tri-compax layout and the daytona case is also expensive to obtain. therefore even if a guy puts a 7753 in a fake daytona case, the rotor noise is a give away, the dial is a give away, the hands are a give away. and of course the case is a give away as it's unlikely the crown will sit at the right height.

this crown height issue is also common in submariner and sea-dweller super fakes. even though you have sub cases that look identical to the real thing, the crown (even though it's real) usually cannot sit at the right height - it's STILL an ETA movement!

sure, you can stick a real 3xxx rolex movement into a fake sub/dweller case, and use a real dial and real hands - the oyster case is the only thing you probably cannot confidently tell... but this does not happen for a modern sub as it's not practical to install a 3135 movement into a fake case. the price of the parts are too high - the buyer/maker might as well buy a real sub. as a corollary, the hands will therefore be a giveaway as will the datewheel.

most fake dwellers have a non-working HEV. fake cases with real HEV are tougher to tell, so experience comes into play here. but again... that rotor sound... a dead giveaway. for the same reason as the sub, we won't find a real rolex movement in a fake modern dweller case.

the exception however, exists for VINTAGE rolex watches. you will find 3035 movements priced affordably, add that to a super case, old dial and real but old rolex hands... so all is well except for the fake oyster case (and maybe tube). do note that tudor hands have been known to be used to obtain that original rolex tritium look...

rolex has been known to accept super fake vintage pieces from time to time... those watches normally get detected only during pressure chamber testing... the fake cases were not designed to properly accept original gaskets and will leak past a certain depth setting. therefore i don't blame them for not accepting vintage pieces in some parts of the world.

no matter how you abuse a brand new fake case, it will look different from a 30 year old oyster case that has been "worn out" - experience matters here. there also exist ways to tell the engraving between the lugs, as well as known/documented good fakes (these fake cases, no matter how good a fake, are not made one by one but mass produced!).

as for the dual-time rolex watches (gmt2s, exp2s) no fake movement exists that allows you to move the hour hands independently. for the older exp2s and gmts with non-adjustable main hour hands... again, it will be an ETA movement due to price! you can tell when you adjust the time (the red hand can be set independently).

i won't go into women's rolex, mid-sized, or the non-oyster style fakes... the market is too small for those to have super fakes.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that:

when in doubt, back away from a deal.

a 100% fake rolex can be too easily distinguished from a genuine rolex watch even WITHOUT paying for that $75 verification. what most people have problem with is with identifying a franken rolex and telling which parts of it is genuine (or not).

therefore if you don't do your home work, don't step into the crazy world of vintage rolex watches, because superfake modern rolex subs are rare (ie, everything is real except the case).

but if you do your home work right, you can almost always tell when a fake is a fake because most of them can be seen with the human eye IF YOU RESEARCH BEFORE BUYING.

and if you have an oyster case opener handy ($50?) or have good hearing, you can learn to identify an ETA movement very easily (with or without stuck on parts as "decoration"). or at the very least, identify a bushing so noisy it requires a service.

as for stolen watches... honestly, there is no central register of stolen rolex watches. who's to tell what's stolen and what's not? i'm pretty darn sure a few are stolen everyday somewhere around the globe. hence, someone can bring a watch stolen from UK to singapore and sell it here without an alarm being raised by RSC singapore.

it already takes 2 days to a week to confirm that a serial number is issued to a certain model... therefore there is no way for RSC to check whether or not everything is legit within the time needed for a $75 verification.

if you are worried, then try to go for a full-kit watch (original warranty, correct box, manual, etc). although still possible, but it's LESS likely to be stolen. still worried? then better take down the seller's ID just in case!

if you are still worried at this point... there's nothing else you can do except buy a watch brand new from a reputable AD and keep far far away from pre-owned...!

but then where's the fun in that.

[seiko.citizen]

nicely said man, and good tips you got there.

[KuchingKu]

Well said taxico.

There are not many super fakes around and (thanks to new media), many have been documented. For those going into vintage, doing homework is necessary and it is not difficult yo spot fake or Frankenstein watch, although there are transitions and acceptable period range variations for different models.

Last but not least, buy the seller. I always stick to a couple of well known dealers whom I never need to doubt the authenticity of their product as well as their product knowledge.

[KuchingKu]

For all these mentioned, I think rsc $75 can check. Especially movement and case. Rsc however does not say if any part is period correct, cos non period correct still genuine rolex parts.

[triton]

a service quote of 75 to check some minor points. a service of 1k or so to feel safe. buy the seller at your own risk. you decide.

[KuchingKu]

a service quote of 75 to check some minor points. a service of 1k or so to feel safe. buy the seller at your own risk. you decide.

1K service also will not surface non period correct parts as long as genuine! For all you know, RSC was/is responsible for asking customers to change parts. That explains why so many vintages (where owners are not collectors) were changed to service dials in the 70s to 80s. My uncle was very happy in the 80s when RSC said "your dial is old so we change a new one for you FOC". You bring in a service dial vintage and RSC will still service it for 1K. ha

[triton]

so the full 790 service only certifies the parts are original or otherwise?

My view is that there is no real need to pay the 75. I only go when buyers want it. Either you rely on your own knowledge or send in for a full 790 service.

a service of 1k or so to feel safe.

1K service also will not surface non period correct parts as long as genuine!

[KuchingKu]

You can say that. Just take for example...service dials. Service dials are not period correct but genuine parts. RSC puts these dials in. If they guarantee period correctness, then they will need to fit tritium dials on vintages but we all know tritium dials are banned! Thus, there are matt luminova dials that RSC use to replace matt tritium dials that they replace.

So, how can they authenticate period-correctness? Also, they never say they will do that too.

[seiko.citizen]

full service = you will know that the parts inside are original rolex. from the right time period they cant/wont say.

[triton]

yes. period correctness. no way to. however, would sources from website and say those rolex book 'encyclopedia' work?

You can say that. Just take for example...service dials. Service dials are not period correct but genuine parts. RSC puts these dials in. If they guarantee period correctness, then they will need to fit tritium dials on vintages but we all know tritium dials are banned! Thus, there are matt luminova dials that RSC use to replace matt tritium dials that they replace.

So, how can they authenticate period-correctness? Also, they never say they will do that too.

[taxico]

full service = you will know that the parts inside are original rolex. from the right time period they cant/wont say.

this thread was about RSC verification... therefore the above quote hits it perfectly.

the entire "period correctness" is part of the pain (and joy) of the wacky world of vintage rolex watches...

if you're not a "collector" then it probably won't matter.

for example, i have no problems wearing a gmt or 5513 sub that has been recased (service replacement oyster case) and matte luminova dial with tritium indications at 6 o'clock - SO LONG AS THE PRICE IS RIGHT!

to a gmt or sub collector... although it is fully genuine, such a watch is probably an abomination and considered "franken" in certain circles, regardless of price!

[KuchingKu]

Like what I say too. There is a price for a ful set period correct vintage and there is a price for one with replaced parts....I am talking about all genuine ones.

So, I find it very hard to help people who ask.....what is a good price for a 5513? Depending on so many things, the price of a vintage can vary a lot...unlike a GMT IIc or LV which is roughly around a tight range. So when people say 'why this 5513 so cheap' or 'why this 5513 so expensive'....I don't know how to answer.

Vintage is not for any newcomer. Lots of passion and time need to be invested to learn. It is a slow process to move from modern to vintage and not always a worthy one (in terms of monetary) but surely a worthy one (in terms of passion and love).

Then people ask, if you think this is so good, then why are you selling. All collectors aim for some grails. If I have in sight a grail, then I will sell something to reach then. Then if a better grail comes along, the previous grail may have to go.
1680 to 1680 red to DRSD etc.